Unionization!
- Started
- Last post
- 55 Responses
- algorithm0
surival of the fittest, improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, I Ching.
If you can't handle it , you should find a new profession.
- e-pill0
ok...we are on the opposite sides of the industry.
good luck!!
- adamfinger0
E-pill,
You misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that YOU stated people should simply look for new jobs or gain new skills and hope that their new environment will be better.
My point in bringing up those comments (made by other posters) was that those sorts of attitudes are antithetical to not only unionization, but to our well-being as designers in general. I don't think its dogmatic or narrow-minded or representative of any reluctance on my part to work with others to counteract those comments -- many of which were snide.
Secondly, in regard to your point about the Freelancer's Union, I had already stated that, as an insurance broker (more or less) they are incapable of acting as a genuine union. Regardless, I don't know how helpful they would be to people who aren't self-employed.
- e-pill0
pls dont compare me with other by stating in response to me directly with using
"just switch jobs, gain more skills, etc."
i didnt write that, in fact i suggested you contact freelancersunion as a suggestion that since they are up and runningas an organization that maybe you can contact someone on their end for help rather than going to a forum with designers.
the clean fact that your first reaction is to re-but anything said by another clealy states that you as an individual is someone that is very hard to work with, meaning why should i as a designer want to be in that environment with someone who olny seems to want to hear themselves.
you are trying to send in some kind of notion that people are getting the short end of life that all their individual hard work is for nothing that only if they fall off their paths and join some group that maybe they can share the wealth...
i really saw your initial idea as something that can be really great, but youy seem to kill it with every of your responses making me not want a union at all and just go on with my way of life, which btw seems to be working very well for me as i am at the top of my career and my paths are all open because of the initial hard work i put into it.
even thru all that i still wish you luck. maybe try to listen more to what others are saying.
- adamfinger0
e-pill.
Unfortunately, I didn't receive too many "suggestions." I received mainly criticisms which I felt compelled to reply to.
I apologize if it seems like I'm just shooting everyone down. I was trying to clear up a few misunderstandings about the idea of unionization. This has nothing to do with a reluctance to work with others, but neither does it have anything to do with simply taking the advice of someone who says something on the lines of, "just switch jobs, gain more skills, etc."
- planet010
what do you mean by "protestant work ethic?"
just curious.
- algorithm0
union? for designers? I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.
- joyride0
lol epill... is that one long sentence? breath man breath
But i couldn't agree more...
- e-pill0
i dont know why you bump this thread, your idea is great but everytime someone posts a suggestion you instantly shoot them down...makes no sense...its liek you just want to see yourself on the net posting against everyone else and their opinions making yours the only one that matters or counts.
its worthless, why not startt it up yourself, do it all, and then bring in people to help your "union" ideal instead of just giving long explanations to why you seem to think your ideal is better off than someone else's. b/c you are just making yourself look like a fool who wants to go at it alone but constantly aaskes for help but doesnt appreciate the help when its given.
its pretty clear you dont want to work with others and that this whole great idea of yours just wont work out until you start making adjustments in in your current ideal so it can work better with others.
- adamfinger0
bump
- ribit0
but there are actually unions of graphic designers, associations for designers such as AIGA (hmmm whats the difference actually?)
- bauts1060
Wow. I was just thinking about this the other day. I have family members who work in various industries that are appalled that there's not union for graphic designers. When I work an 80 hour week and my family says "well look at all the overtime you're gonna get" and tell them there is no overtime they simply can't comprehend. I think unions could greatly improve working conditions, expecially in shops where working newer cats (designers, junior designers) 12 hours a day for 30K a year is considered generous.
- chossy0
unionize deencouragize front bottomize, mad crazy eyez, muckle thunder thighs, pure demon prize, randomize, healthasize, blastisize, chossizize I rule izize.
I am Rand........
isize.
- vespa0
well i guess i feel like it's my own time management problems because i always work past whatever time is available, even if i have loads of time.
maybe i should just get off nt. yep, that would save me loads of time!
- adamfinger0
Vespa, but wouldn't you rather be compensated for your hard work (assuming your not given overtime pay)? Wouldn't you rather be given a longer timeframe?
Wouldn't you rather go home even earlier and work on your own projects and make them look good?
- adamfinger0
Vespa,
Unions are there to protective worker's rights. How does our being creative make us any less susceptible to being taken advantage of that those in non-creative industries? In many respects, we're more so, if for no other reason than the fact that we've rationalized our current situation as normal.
Is there no creativity required in acting? In writing? In teaching for that matter? I don't know what kind of impact unionization has had on musician's in the UK, perhaps you can shoot them an e-mail if you're truly interested.
- vespa0
actually, looking through the BECTU site, it does look like they are doing good work, and it's reassuring to know that such an organisation exists.
the reason Good Design trumps everything is because that is the central motivator for most of us creatives! i'd much rather work a little longer and make something i'm really proud of than go home at 5.30 and produce average work.
- adamfinger0
Jamble.
I apprecaiate your comments. As for fending off "a lot of crap comments," I see very little option but to do so. The idea is naturally foreign to most people on here.
Unfortunately, it seems like Good Design trumps every other concern on here. Where it's applied to and how it comes about seems sadly irrelevant.
This was one of the reasons I wanted to see if anybody was interested in starting up a website -- to dispell some myths and answer some questions. Obviously I can't keep answering every question that pops up on here. Nor is this tiny window conducive to do so.
- vespa0
how has unionisation helped other creative industries? e.g. the music industry (worse than design in terms of worker rights) and the film industry?
I'm not slagging the idea off, i'm just interested in the practical outcomes, rather than the theory.
in the UK we have BECTU
http://www.bectu.org.uk/
but my only experience has been that the people who've joined were quite jobsworthy.
- jamble0
Adam,
I'm really sorry you've posted what is a good idea (not an original one but that's an aside) and you've had a load of cunty remarks about your intentions from people who by and large you'll see posting about their 100 hour weeks or stress levels at some point.
The idea of unionisation isn't some goodfellas style mob deal nor is it a British miners style picket line or a Russian revolution. It's to provide better support for people in the industry.
I'd imagine there are a few fledgeling organisations out there already that are trying to get members though so setting up a "new" one might not necessarily be needed?
Like a couple of people here, I work alright hours (I still think an 8 hour day is too much though) and overtime is paid and by prior agreement only so I have it pretty good but there are so many "I'm stressed" "clients are insane" "I've worked a 100 hours this week" threads here that to dismiss union support/backing to do away with this sort thing is wrong.
I'd support a designers union to improve conditions for people in the industry who perhaps are being explioted doing more hours than are reasonable or woefully underpaid - again, we've all laughed at some job posts here and elsewhere asking the world for £13k a year.
I think you're going to be fending off a lot of crap comments about unionisation here though as it would appear that all the well paid, brilliant jobs in design are taken by the people on this forum and all the complaints posts about hours, clients etc are just jokes.