Unionization!
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- e_b_c0
;)
- e-pill0
pls dont compare me with other by stating in response to me directly with using
"just switch jobs, gain more skills, etc."
i didnt write that, in fact i suggested you contact freelancersunion as a suggestion that since they are up and runningas an organization that maybe you can contact someone on their end for help rather than going to a forum with designers.
the clean fact that your first reaction is to re-but anything said by another clealy states that you as an individual is someone that is very hard to work with, meaning why should i as a designer want to be in that environment with someone who olny seems to want to hear themselves.
you are trying to send in some kind of notion that people are getting the short end of life that all their individual hard work is for nothing that only if they fall off their paths and join some group that maybe they can share the wealth...
i really saw your initial idea as something that can be really great, but youy seem to kill it with every of your responses making me not want a union at all and just go on with my way of life, which btw seems to be working very well for me as i am at the top of my career and my paths are all open because of the initial hard work i put into it.
even thru all that i still wish you luck. maybe try to listen more to what others are saying.
- adamfinger0
Snide comments aside, I'm not surprised that unionization isn't taken seriously. Working conditions are rarely (if ever) addressed within the design community. Conversation is immediately directed toward aesthetics. Creative design, it seems, trumps leisure time, trumps financial security, trumps retirement plans.
- e-pill0
adam-
have you contacted the Freelancers Union??
http://www.freelancersunion.org/…
awesome idea, good luck with it!!!!!!!!
:)
- 67nj0
FIGHT ON!!!
I'm in!to whom we are against tho?
- tkmeister0
sorry, i get 1.5X overtime pay.
- adamfinger0
e-pill,
The Freelancer's Union isn't a union at all. It's a non-profit organization aimed at providing freelancer's with reduced-cost medical coverage. It may serve immediate needs, but it's purpose is not to organize designers against exploitation (a term that unfortunately seems to be reserved only for extreme cases like sweatshops these days).
There are real unions out there that would be more than willing to embrace designers, including freelancers. But as it stands, I could potentially organize my workplace into a union only to be collectively fired and replaced with a non-union staff. In other words, unionization has to be more broadly accepted before it becomes effective.
I know of freelance designers that are members of the Communication Workers of America (AFL-CIO). But as individuals, I don't know what advantages it membership brings them. Perhaps its simply symbolic.
- BANTER0
I've worked under unions, it's not all that great and they sometimes protect people who shouldn't be in the position that they are in... IE, the lazy guy who slacks at work because he knows the union will protect his job.
- adamfinger0
tkmeister, you may personally get 1.5x overtime pay, but that isn't necessarily the norm. Nor can we simply all quit our jobs and hope to work for employers who pay overtime.
And simply because you enjoy certain advantages doesn't mean you shouldn't dismiss the prospects of a union and the benefits it might bestow upon you.
- adamfinger0
BANTER...
Many unions are undoubtedly corrupt. Their effectiveness is a function of how active their members are in decision-making. Some unions, like the Teamsters, for example, make it very hard for their members to have a say in important matters by restricing decision-making to officials (there are rank-and-file organizations, however, that challenge these problems). But this is not characteristic of all unions.
As far as protecting "lazy workers" goes, you have to understand that unions SHOULD push for less hours, less stressful working periods, etc. The work we do is designed for profit. Lazy workers may put more stress on other workers, which could be dealt with on an individual basis, but a Protestant work ethic doesn't really help us out either.
- bauts1060
Wow. I was just thinking about this the other day. I have family members who work in various industries that are appalled that there's not union for graphic designers. When I work an 80 hour week and my family says "well look at all the overtime you're gonna get" and tell them there is no overtime they simply can't comprehend. I think unions could greatly improve working conditions, expecially in shops where working newer cats (designers, junior designers) 12 hours a day for 30K a year is considered generous.
- tkmeister0
i've actually started a thread called 'Financial guide for designers".
you just need to be smart about many aspects to take advantage of it.
unionization wouldn't necessarily help designers.
- Sven_sk0
i have great working conditions and great benefits and great hours
plus i get paid about 1.5x would i probably should get.
i don't think a union is the answer
there are a lot of good places out there to work. its just up to you to man up and search them out
- adamfinger0
tkmeister-
Finances is not always the most important issue. I'm okay with my pay, but I'm not okay with my hours. Workers today, and certainly including designers, work hours comparable to that of 100 years ago. In return, we get the fewest days of vacation of any western country and we get poor social services in return. This is not progress.
Plus being "smart" with your money when the disparity of wealth is so great sounds a lot like capitulation -- simply learning to live with what we get.
According to the 2006 AIGA Salary Survey and the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics, designer's aren't that well off. Mid-level salaries are around $40,000-$45,000. Even when its more, the hours required to earn that money plus the high cost of living translates into a real wage that's much less.
- Rand0
didn't mean to make light of this... I work for myself and have no employees, though
- blaw0
given the opportunity in the past, i've always voted against unionizing. i still feel that's the correct vote.
to summarize... if you are unhappy with your current situation, do something about it (ie: find a new job).
- adamfinger0
Rand (and a few others)...
You don't REALLY work for yourself. Your income is dependent upon your expenditure of mental energy on clients, not your own projects. That you might chose your clients doesn't alter this relationship. It just changes the appearance and makes its a bit more convoluted. Your clients hire you to make them more money. You may work hard and you may be incredibly talented, but your clients answer first and foremost to profits. This is the core of the market. This means that, in staying competitive, they will cut costs wherever possible -- that of their designers included. There will always be more designers (and workers in general) than there are bosses, studio-heads and clients.
Our competing with one another doesn't serve our interests. It can only bring down our incomes, our benefits, and our leisure-time. Getting by in this industry, especially for freelancers, means working harder and harder to bring home a paycheck. How is it rational for designers to buy into this? We could be working drastically shorter days, thus giving us more time to work on our own projects, to be creative on our own terms.
Simply looking for a new job, even one outside the industry, is no guarantee that things will improve. Many of these problems are experienced in all sectors. Moreover, the idea of "personal advancement" as a solvent flies in the face of collective action, which has thus far been the only tool to bring about serious change. As those responsible for doing the work, we shouldn't simply cross our fingers and hope there are "generous" bosses out there willing to compensate us "fairly."
Also, don't confuse a college degree, a professional title, or so-called "self-employment" as reasons not to unionize. There are unions for teachers, freelance writers, professors, office workers, IT professionals, health care workers, actors, film workers, etc. Many animators in Hollywood enjoy unions and for a long time, so did commercial artists.
- johndiggity0
break free of those chains which bind you brother.
- ribit0
how are you defining who is in this union? what sort of designers?
- adamfinger0
E-pill,
You misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that YOU stated people should simply look for new jobs or gain new skills and hope that their new environment will be better.
My point in bringing up those comments (made by other posters) was that those sorts of attitudes are antithetical to not only unionization, but to our well-being as designers in general. I don't think its dogmatic or narrow-minded or representative of any reluctance on my part to work with others to counteract those comments -- many of which were snide.
Secondly, in regard to your point about the Freelancer's Union, I had already stated that, as an insurance broker (more or less) they are incapable of acting as a genuine union. Regardless, I don't know how helpful they would be to people who aren't self-employed.