God and Jesus
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- kaiyohtee0
"jesus, save me from your "followers"
- Mimio0
Discipler, if that's true ( to the story that is) then God went through a major personality transformation between the OT and the NT.
- discipler0
yes, 1923 was a significant failed prophecy as well.
The JW doctrine of Christ as the first creation of God (i.e. The Father only in their theology) dates back to the 4th century with Arius, a bishop of Alexandria. It's noteworthy that there is no record in the early church prior to this time of believers ever believing he was created. This didn't come until the 4th century.
- QuincyArcher0
Not trying to offend you but I've heard and seen some strange things come out of that clan over the years.
:)
JazX
(Dec 5 05, 13:33)
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don't worry about it. i've heard some things too...but anyway, we do believe that Jesus was sinless and divine...we just don't believe he was/is God...
- discipler0
Quincy, how do you get around the clear declaration of numerous passages in scripture that teach Jesus is God? I've listed a few of them above in this thread.
- ********0
yes, I know that about your group. I studied religion in High School and was raised in a Born Again Christian church up until 18.
- Mirpour0
Hey where and what did jesus do after he was born up until he started passing out bread and fish from a basket... he was born like a godsend king with lights and shit ... then he just pops up in crowds ???
..ohh and hes jesus not god ... god never dies?
- foreign0
jesus was a black man...
jesus was batman...nooo, that was bruce wayne.
- Gilt0010
Discipler can you state the failed prophecy of 1923? I'm not sure I've ever heard of that one.
- QuincyArcher0
you'll have to forgive me, i don't have bible with...so i'm not going to do a good job explaining this...
but in examples like John1:1, I believe the word translated there is a word that can simply mean a power being, and not necessarily "God The Father"
Colossians 2:9 is an example of the numourous time Christ is describe as "God The Father"-like. God lives through Jesus because they are so very similar.
I can't respond to all of them...
but if i remember correctly Thomas was rebuked for saying that in john 20:28. I might be confusing that with something else, though. so don't quote me on that.
it's hard to program and have intense theological discussion at the same time.
- discipler0
A list of their failed prophecies with the publications cited:
- discipler0
Quincy, yes I'm familiar with these approaches by the WT. Here's a quick response:
John 1:1 - The word is "Theos" which is properly translated "God". And no Trinitarian theology does not teach that Jesus is the person of the Father. JW's conflate the two and have always misunderstood this.
Colossians 2:9 - Again "Theos". Paul had another word in the greek at his disposal, if he was choosing to communicate that Christ merely had some sort of divine quality. He chose not to use it.
John 20:28 - Thomas was not rebuked, he was blessed. And Christ received his worship.
- discipler0
more on John 1:1
- QuincyArcher0
ouch...i'm not really prepared to do this today...
I thought i might be confusing the John20:28 thing with something else...
hmmm...
i should probably just keep my mouth shut until i can provide some answers...
- PonyBoy0
ouch...i'm not really prepared to do this today...
I thought i might be confusing the John20:28 thing with something else...
hmmm...
i should probably just keep my mouth shut until i can provide some answers...
QuincyArcher
(Dec 5 05, 13:58)... probably a smart move. :)
It's difficult to reason on the scriptures over the web...
- QuincyArcher0
... probably a smart move. :)
It's difficult to reason on the scriptures over the web...
PonyBoy
(Dec 5 05, 14:00)
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especially when you don't have then infront of you...so you're a witness too, huh?
- PonyBoy0
Don't worry, no one really takes what JWs say too seriously. How many times have they "predicted" the end of the world?
Mimio
(Dec 5 05, 13:30)
---what?!!
- Gilt0010
Discipler, a text out of context becomes a pretext (for error usually).
I can't really give much credit to a site wholly set on refuting someones beliefs without giving alternatives or attempts to explain the actualities.
Admittedly, huge steps were taken in the late 1800's by JW's to change thinking because they realized they had the scriptures wrong. They came to the realization that things like the cross were not to be used in worship.
I'm stepping out of this thread as we're concentrating on negatives. If we were discussing what one's end result is (which would be much more beneficial) then this might be worth more conjecture.
Grathias... you have quite a bit of knowlege discipler.
- PonyBoy0
JW's do NOT prophecy... they simply share their love for God, his Son and God's word - the Bible - with our fellow neighbors, as it was Jesus' final command (to continue preaching God's word)...
... seriously - People make up so much garbage about JW's - I've heard that we don't dance, we don't drink, we're not allowed to listen to music... um... yeah... we're a cult etc. etc...
... and if you're not sure - why not just ask? It a pet-peeve of mine - people telling me what I believe. :)
- PonyBoy0
Quinc... I'll email you... Gilt - you a JW?