Hillman's Carson Interview.
- Started
- Last post
- 61 Responses
- ********0
i was starting to worry a bit Dinky, all these long serius posts
good to see you are okay
designerror
(Jul 8 05, 19:55)i am worried also
i have mentioned any homoeroticism or getting nakedhmm
- ********0
I have a ton of his typefaces but clearly they are from a bygone time.
|oo|
(Jul 8 05, 20:01)i think with little bit of massaging the type and style still works.
- |oo|0
defiantly
- robotron3k0
wow that's a sad video hillman did about carson. it ends with carson talking about waiting a long time for his "next big thing" that will bring him success... at least he can still pick up chicks.
- NegativeSpace0
thread number 3 about this video. waits for thread 4.
- NegativeSpace0
I agree very much with scarabin had to say in thread no. 2.
A bit of the work from Raygun appealed to me from an artistic perspective, but to me thats all I see his work as, and I have never really appreciated it as graphic design. *gulp*
The whole self indulgent thing dosn't really fit my own definition of graphic design I guess. To me it is just another aesthetic, which I think there is too much of today. Hate to pick on people, but for instance Chuck aka Nopattern, in much the same way has a certain aesthetic. From my own view on design I just cannot understand why a design for someone else or about something else should be self-indulgent, to me that would just confuse the overall message, which I guess is where his whole take on subjectivity comes in, and conflicts with my thinking where design should be objective.
In closing, not a fan of Carson at all, and after seeing him at FITC, little things bugged me that he said, for instance, the brochure for schedule of the event had two distant portions of the schedule across a big fold out spread. The schedule could have easily been positioned so that the fold went right between them, yet it wasn't, easy thing to avoid, and after he heard people commenting on it, he was like "Who cares that the fold is not in the middle etc etc etc"
Maybe some people are like that but I don't know to me that just seems careless, why have a fold going through text that people are going to read if you don't have to?
- Kevin_Sweeney0
I think you hit the nail on the head there, Negative. Carson is more an artist than a designer.
- peiter0
True that Kevin.
We should be saying..."ah isnt that cute...look at the artist making a quark layout"...not "oh my goodness, he is the best thing ever, such a revolutionary graphic designer", blablabla.
Poo on that.
I just picture him hitting a computer like a monkey..confused at it while accidently hitting the print key..bam mistake driven crap all over the place...
but hey even carson looked good compared to the 80s...he jsut happened to come in at the right time.
- NegativeSpace0
/\ which is maybe not far from the truth.
His presentation at fitc was on a slide show projector, and a photo of his computers desktop was a see of overlapping icons lol.
(also note I used the word aesthetic just to avod any confusion, I remember Megg's in his history of graphic design text brought up a good point in the preface at how the word style is commonly used to describe the superficial aspects of work. As a designer I find myself concerned with my approach to design, and philosophy, that would define my 'style', the aesthetic would come from the research and development along the way, thus being different and unique to each project.)
- Kevin_Sweeney0
" I just picture him hitting a computer like a monkey..confused at it while accident"
Excellent visual. You just made my day lol
- Solid0
Peiter - I don't think anyone is saying Carson "is the best thing ever, such a revolutionary graphic designer".
He did do something that was a break from the norm (at the time), and I liked it. Was he the only one doing it? No. Was/is he a design genius? No, I don't think so.
Your characterization of Carson:
"I just picture him hitting a computer like a monkey..confused at it while accidently hitting the print key..bam mistake driven crap all over the place..."
seems like little more than a biased, personal attack - I'm really not sure where its coming from or why?
Balance is needed.
Carson is a self-indulgent designer? The man made his fame designing surfing and pop-music magazines!
Design is first and foremost about problem-solving. The scope and scale of the problem varies from project to project. Sometimes the problem can be as simple as "design a really sexy magazine cover that will grab the attention of the target demographic."
In other words, don't try to measure/judge all designers and their products by the same metrics.
Any healthy endeavour requires extremes which provide tangible limits or parameters. Completely 'self-indulgent' design is as necessary as so-called 'responsible', 'contextual' design, in order for the rest of us to be able to function in the in-between.
If a designer is unable to fit 'self-indulgent' into their definition of 'Design' then I would argue that their definition is far too narrow, and perhaps just a little naive.
Quite often self-indulgence is a label placed on designers who put forth their own agendas. Look around you - at ALL the design disciplines. Some of the greatest designers have very strong personal agendas in the form of themes, recurring ideas, theories; they are the ones who CREATE and/or DISCOVER the paths that the rest of us eventually follow.
I encourage you not to look at Carson's output as the beginning and the end. The fact that he did what he did, when he did it, allows others to come along and take his output in new or evolutionary directions which may ultimately have merit in your eyes.
- peiter0
my goodnes solid.
its like the boss just walked in, causing a bunch of people to stop laughing and get super serious. I use references like a monkey not to express a serious conversation, yet more to have fun on a friday night as we discuss stupid david carson.
its like i just got lectured by my parents. gees.
and by the way if hillman makes a video about you i would assume people are talking about the influence you have made in design...i am simply saying this is not needed with him.
break the norm...he neglected to read the instructions and stumbled upon fame and fortune. big deal. he is a has been.
And please stop calling the man a designer. surfing and pop culture magazines..ha, he had no client...he was the only say of the project...he communicated his own thought...fine artist using a computer...hence the monkey.
the same metrics...being knowledgable?
dood, maybe i am a bit of a dick but i was one of those yuppy private university art center kids...i graduated writing a fifty page thesis on this very subject...I see him as being a lucky freshman who needs help designing cause you know he doesnt know anything...i think quark and thats it...why does his shit look like that, cause thats the only thing he can do...bad quark layout.
self indulgent is just another word for postmodernist....damn hippies. everyone is trying to feel design...ooohhhhhh...what did cassande say, something like "the designer is the operator, the task is to remove oneself from the equation and take the clients message and provide it to the audience...Nothing More. In the hillman video Carson says that people argued, saying he wasnt showing respect to the articles...No one could read them...if he would of showed up to the first day of class he would of learned something about legability...good work designer, make a magazine that people want to read but cant...then argue that you didnt care it was your magazine and thats the way you wanted it...thats some good old fashion american postmodernism...a shitty feel good artist posing as a designer becoming famous because moderist laugh at him and postmodernist defend him.
- Solid0
:D
Peiter, not all of that was directed at you - more just me venting after reading all the Carson threads during the time I've been here.
Also, it's all too easy to misunderstand humour from someone I don't know (in this case you), so sorry about that.
I'm not trying to defend Carson's abilities. I'm just making the argument that, by accident or 'design', the fact remains he did what he did, and he represents one part of the spectrum.
As for him being a has been - your probably right - but then everyone from the past is a 'has been' - you can't very well blame him/them for that ;)
*note liberal sprinkling of smileys for positive effect :D
For me, determining Carson's relative merit (or lack of) as a designer (or artist) is not important. Nor is the question of his technical ability, or the question of whether his work is a product of accident or intent.
What is important to me is that he did what he did, it had an impact (for better or worse) - people responded, reacted (for or against), they were effected by it.
I just don't agree with the idea of simply dismisssing that, because (at least for myself) I think there are things I can take away with me and use.
- Solid0
And Peiter, I'm glad we had a chance to meet tonight, because its nice to actually discuss things like this once in a while :)
*sits closer to Peiter
*puts hand on Peiter's lap
- peiter0
damn good posting solid.
"high five" for good conversation.
- ********0
this thread have more words in it, than the 500 above. Very nice to see a good discussion that doesn't go down the sarcastic drain for once.
good read!
- peiter0
*wink
- Solid0
^5
:D
- ********0
damn it's late.. i ment below, not above ofcause
- Visia0
I don't think Carson is a designer at all. He's a wannabe artist.
Don't get me wrong, Raygun was great. But, it went under. Likely because the vast majority of people got fed up trying to read the mess he'd made of articles and just decided not to buy the magazine.
Some people call him a typogrpahic genius. I think that's a joke. All he ever did was fuck up his type and call it "progressive". Any jackass can do that. In fact, a lot of jackasses do it now and it doesn't mean shit anymore.
The only difference between Carson and someone else that can fuck things up is that someone actually hired him to design a magazine.
I'd like to see Carson design a wayfinding system or actually produce a decent design within the rules.
Like I said before, any jackass can "break the rules" but it takes a real genius to work within them and still produce something ground-breaking.
Bottom line, for me at least, is that Carson is all hype and no skills. The only reason he's a design rockstar is because he feeds on every designers desire to rebel against the real, corporate, largely non-creative work they do day-to-day.
But in the end, that's design.