making clients understand
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- lymlyt
how do you explain to a client that expecting a designer to pull a logo out of their ass in 2-3 hours devalues the actual design aspect of the work? the very reason you hire a designer in the first place. if it's a "you-get-what-you-pay-for" type of project, then i'm sorry, maybe there's something wrong with me that i'm not capable of the $100 logo. i admit it --- i'm a perfectionist and i believe very strongly in putting in the extra effort. i'm not saying it's about the money but you have to draw the line somewhere, right?
sorry, i'm just a little torqued by the fact that i spent nearly 20 hours on logo concepts for a client who clearly has no f*cking clue what she wants and expects to pay me for only 2-3 hours of work now even after i offered to only charge her for half since _she_ wanted to pay for the initial concepts and still have me continue with new concepts once she f*ckin' figures out what the f*ck she wants. i'm in the midst of an email trying to explain my point of view to her and i'm seriously considering telling her to find someone else to work with.
i always quote about 10 hours for logo concepting (end up spending more like 20) and throw in another couple hours for revisions. is that wrong? am i totally out of line here?
what would you do?
- cloned0
welcome to the world of the client/designer relationship.
calmly and simply explain what you just said in half the words you just used and hope she understands.
never walk away from a client, they will talk poorly of you. spend more time talking before you design so you have a good understanding of her wants so aas not to head down the wrong roads
try explaining to her the importance of solid logo design and use the statement you get what you pay for in a way that makes it click for her
good luck
- johndiggity0
you shouldn't have started that type of work without clear direction from the client. either explain that you can design the identity of the company (it is your job so she should trust you) or ask her to tell you very clearly what she wants to do with the image (it is her comapany and she might know more of the ins and outs).
this is clearly a trust issue, coupled with the fact that she doesn't understand the value of good design to a company.
some people will never understand. i accepted the fact that my parents will never understand what it is i do exactly. they just cannot grasp it, and there are plenty of people out there that are the same. they buy the owl pocket light on the infomercials. they equate more features with technological prowess, not matter how ill designed or unnecessary those features are.
if you feel the client is this type of person, point her in the direction of logzine.com or the like and part ways.
if you believe you can mold her to appreciate good design and it's benefits than try to do so using concrete examples of products and ads and picture so she can understand. show the profitablity of large corporations that regulary devote time and money to good design (the guardian had a good article about this months back).
in short, get her on your team or release her to free agency. as good as randy moss was, the vikings let him go because of the headaches and you should be sure to do the same.
- lymlyt0
thanks for the input. seriously. i'm just so frustrated with this one.
i thought i had a clear idea of what she wanted going into this --- you know, typical stuff, interview the client, even had samples from her of things she liked (colors, fonts, etc.). i'm usually pretty intuitive when it comes to figuring out what the client wants --- especially when they don't seem to know. but man, this one has no idea. she's spending all her time looking at other people's identities and websites trying to figure out what she likes. after she reviewed the initial concepts --- telling me there were parts of all of them that she liked but that nothing "jumped out at her" --- she said she went online again, looked through business cards AGAIN. i told her it sounded like she was putting too much pressure on herself to decide on a symbol and suggested she NOT think about what she wanted for awhile, to focus on the content for her website and other materials, that maybe through developing this she'd get a clearer picture of what she wanted for her identity. i mean, this woman talks in circles --- for awhile i thought she just couldn't articulate the image in her head, but then i realized there is no image. she really has no idea.
i am torn between cutting her loose and wanting to see this through. i don't know if i want to deal with the headache of this freelance project but i can't imagine not seeing a design challenge through to the final solution. obviously i know what i have to do for my own piece of mind. so my biggest issue is figuring out what to say and what not to say to try to make her understand that it's not really about the money but rather the value of the design.
- swollenelbow0
value of design is very upsetting to some designers...
usually brings them way down.
- lymlyt0
half-ass design is what brings me down. clients who want something for nothing piss me off. "i love your work" (but i don't want to pay for it).
not cool.
oh, hi marco ;)
- swollenelbow0
it's happening 300 or more times a day...
it's strange...it's like it's supposed to be this way...
but i'm confident it doesn't....
hello dear...
- cloned0
see it through-
you'll feel better about yourself when youre done. no one wants to be a quitter. and even if she doesn't express it. she will be appreciate of your efforts.
besides you will have saved countless people from experiencing bs design from someone that only wants to appease her
- lymlyt0
i know, i know...it probably happens that often in my office alone. and apparently --- though i wasn't aware of this --- i am capable of simply pulling design out of my ass on a daily; no wait, make that an hourly basis. because you know, it doesn't take any time, thought or effort. right? bastards. load me up. i don't need a break, don't need to take a lunch, don't need to go home when the rest of the office does; hell, i don't even need a weekend. as long as everyone else is happy...
gawd
i know, i know....i have issues. it's been a long couple of weeks and just when i thought i might get a break, get to escape from the office for a couple days, i'm getting dumped on again. then the whole non-paying (or barely paying) freelance issue came up.....i feel like i'm tangling from the end of a rapidly fraying rope.
i need a massage :(
- cloned0
idp has been kinda lonely lately....
- arseni0
so, is the logo done or you just did concepts? why don't you set a flat fee for a logo regardless of how much time you spend on it.
anyways, if the logo is not complete and your client wants YOU to complete it, don't worry about the time you spent on concepts, just charge her more for the finished piece.
good luck
- lymlyt0
besides you will have saved countless people from experiencing bs design from someone that only wants to appease her
cloned
(Mar 4 05, 23:12)-----
haha. good point. my opportunity to save the world from one of the things that pisses me off the most. ;)
- cloned0
bren-
i like your site its small, so many people design to fit their own screens nowadays you might want to have none pdf examples though
just a suggestion
:)
- lymlyt0
well, thanks. i appreciate it.
but what do you mean about the examples though? there are non-pdf samples. tons actually. i was even worried that i included too many...but it is just a quick fix portfolio site while i work on a meatier version. ;)
- cloned0
i saw the portfolio that i could browse.
i guess im just against pdfs unless you really need them
as far as the content, i dont think you can have too much id rather a potential client decide theyve seen enough rather than wondering why they couldn't find more
you know what i mean?
- lymlyt0
i hear ya cluckin' big chicken ;)