Clients Who Don't Pay...
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- normal0
timtastic:
It doesn't even have to go that far, I could sue them for infringement. As it is artwork that I produced and if it released to market without my permission or copyright transfer then I have every right to do that.
I'm secretly hoping for it actually because at this point it's no more mister nice guy. I've done the apology, i did my diplomatic and professional best to assuage their sudden and inconceivable concerns to no avail.
- Seph0
Normal, I'm feeling for you dude.
Dont get me wrong but its difficult to judge how this will end in court as I only have your version of the story - sincere as it seems.
I know this much though, verbal agreements dont count for diddly squit in court, it doenst matter how well you've logged your hours and saved all the work etc, if they havent signed on the dotted line then you are going to hear a lot of porky pies in court which will only end up upsetting you more. And you probably wont win.
Sorry, thats just my opinion. If this is the first experience of it kind you have had in 8 years then I'd say you've been quite lucky, take it on the chin, learn from it and give them the finger from me.
- ********0
normal,
different scenario but similar in terms of non payment.
We got asked to play records at a party 20 miles out of Zurich...
So we go along and play our records to a crowd of like 800 or something mental and as we're packing up we go to collect our cash.....the only "organizer" we could find had popped F@ck knows how many pillsand wasn't in a state to speak about anything...
Ok we thought they are friends of friends we'll get it later....
- Ell0
They have already had the identity printed on tags
normal
(aug 6 04, 04:34)
Turn the tables on them. Invoice them 50 times the amount agreed in the 'verbal agreement' as they have already printed and started selling with the new identity before agreeing a price in writing.
- ********0
ooops part II....
anyway 2 weeks later we still haven't heard from them so we phoned them up; "Oh we thought that you'd enjoy playing in front of such a big crowd, we didn't think you'd want paying"
Well yeah, IF they hadn't been taking 15 SFR off of everyone wanting in, telling us our combined guestlist (for 2 of us) was 5 people etc etc.... We worked out they made between 20'000SFR and 30'000SFR and told them in no uncertain terms how much our trouble was going to cost them. They tried to tell us that they'd already spent the money on various powders and pills, we told them to get f@cking mortgages if they had to, that drugs are what you do with SPARE money - not our fee, we were getting paid.
Hour for hour we spent longer arguing about it than playing on the night, at the end of it they paid us big, but it'd have been easier without to be honest...
- normal0
Seph:
It is hard to judge, that's why I posted this. Granted I would not expect any of you to take my word for fact.
However verbal agreements at least in my research are binding and can be used in court. They aren't the best or the strongest defense but considering that there are emails, and a definite flow of information, drawings, sketches and timestamped imagery that corroborate those verbal agreements it's all that I have.
In addition to that there is always the alternative that they would be stupid enough to actually use the identity and designs that they possess but I have not released and they have not paid for.
After the "resolution" meeting when I presented my position and findings. They were very defensive at the beginning but towards the end of it as I rebutted every one of their accusations with cold hard facts. I could see their faces drawn, one was actually pale when I mentioned what a court judgement against their new business would do to their credit rating. Due to their faded resistance, I actually would not be too surprised if I received a check in the mail.
Thanks for the insight though.
- normal0
Mx_OnD:
That's almost exactly what I anticipate happening with this. If you read my response to Seph you'll learn why.
That's always a bullshit argument from a client, any client. Anytime they frame anything in "We're doing you a favor" and not the other way around is always a bad sign. Good on you mate.
- ********0
for the tenth time, you SPIKE them. Use Drivers to shut-down their site. time-bombs as I like to call them, they don't pay it don't work! ;) .dll magika
- normal0
Ell:
Turn the tables on them. Invoice them 50 times the amount agreed in the 'verbal agreement' as they have already printed and started selling with the new identity before agreeing a price in writing.
________________
When I do meet with a solicitor I'm sure they will be able to tell me more in reference to that. It could well end up with them more bloody and bruised than they ever anticipated.
Speaking of which, does anyone know of a good creative solicitor in London?
- ********0
Solicitors also work, you can get them to collect your money for you at a certain %, in which they will receive. It's better than getting nothing. But, I'm telling you to outsmart them, use drivers to shut down the site. When they come back and say, 'uhhmmmm hey like what happened to the functionality of the site', you say, 'pay up bitches!'
- normal0
JazX:
Though it is extremely tempting to "own" them by shutting down their server, changing their email passwords that they are relying so heavily on now and everything else. It would not bode well for me in court if I were to take such action. Though if it turns out that I am in fact screwed I might decide to fuck with them.
I've already placed an order for , "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Creating a Web Page" which will be delivered annonymously to their address. With a note saying that "The Complete and Total Fucking Wankers Guide To Building a Website" was sold out.
- ********0
sorry.
- Seph0
MX_Ond, say like you's rock and roll man.
- ********0
no you see you can development a site in which the drivers will shut down the functionality of their site, make it go blank, has nothing to do with a server or e-mail address.
- Seph0
JazX - you really want to do some damage here.
Normal - Have you got there current website adrdress?
- normal0
JazX
What sort of drivers are you talking about here? Perl based ones, scripts, cgi, or dll's?
Confused.
- ********0
True, depending on what technology you've used. A Russian friend and I developed a site for a university and we outsmarted them from the beginning by developing a few drivers that would shut down the entire ASPX/Content Management System (CMS)-based site. Boom, make it go blank as in completely WHITE after a certain time period, which we placed at about14 days from when we sent the last final changes to them. They didn't pay on time and then said, hey, 'WTF' guys please we need this. We said, 'guy's WTF, please, pay our asses'.
Needless to say we got out money and they got outsmarted.Bom, Fini et Fait!
- normal0
Seph:
Yes, but there is nothing on it as we hadn't even gotten to that stage yet. The website part of it had not been completed fully as I was still waiting for them to provide me with the actual content for the site.
That's the logic that we're dealing with here. They wanted it done "weeks ago" yet had provided me with nothing to complete it with.
These guys have no technical ability whatsoever or understanding of the process of developing a website. I tried my best to explain this to them using the architect metaphor for building a house for a client in which the client had only specified the carpet (colours), the drapes(type), and that they wanted a skylight (fancy doo-dads). That's why I had to brief myself and them in turn. They didn't know how many bedrooms, how many toilets, or even if they wanted a kitchen.
I expect for some strange and mystical reason, they thought I would reach these conclusions all by myself as I am a psychic designer who shits perfectly spherical golden eggs.
So during our first round of reviews the client asked where their house was and then fired me for not having built it to their specifications that they never provided me.
That is the kicker in this debaucle.
- normal0
JazX:
Good manuever but I've never been in this situation before and therefore never surmised that any action like that would be required.