Clients Who Don't Pay...
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- normal
I figured there might be some of you out there who may have encountered this at some point and can offer some advice, links, or contacts.
Here is the story in length:
I was awarded the project 6 weeks ago by a friend who was the partner in a fairly new company making tshirts for Top Man (UK). The company was starting to take off earning more concessions for Top Man across the UK. They approached me initially in reference to getting a website done for them. As the relationship grew I was commissioned further to create their identity, tshirt artwork, and producing business collateral. It was a very casual collaborative project, we had weekly meetings and drinks at the pub. It was also just a bread and butter job for me, my pricing was cheap and I saw it as an opportunity to grow creatively and get into new things. If I could afford to pay my rent and put some food on the table I was more than happy to oblige.
First mistake: I did not charge my usual 50% up front for my proposal. I broke my own rule here as I have always required a retainer from new clients. Never take jobs on spec, if the client is serious enough to commission you, then they've got to pay up front. Then they have a vested interest in seeing the project through as they've put money down.
During the initial meeting, I said that the website would take about five days to produce, we never set a delivery date. Their brief to me was a colour palette and type face (cooper black which I advised them against, so 90's). That's it. No content, no copy, and no artwork was provided to me. We'd work that out as time went on. So I set about getting everything registered, setting up domains and email, even went to the office and set up their email for them. Mentioned that for the look book I'd obviously require photographs of their products, I recommended a photographer. They said they'd start pulling shirts as they went for the look book. Great. I mentioned that their idea of an identity (company name set in cooper black) was not really a proper identity that for their bespoke tshirts they should have a bespoke ID. They said they were looking for one, would I be willing to do it? Of course. I needed something to hang the web design off of anyways and identity is important in that process as you guys know. Started sketching ideas for identity. Presented it to them, they liked my concepts we marked a few off for further development and they also based on these sketches that they wanted some tshirt artwork as well, commissioning three designs for tshirt artwork. Of course! Fantastic. We're rolling. Went home started to digitise the sketches they liked, came up with about six different identity concepts including just plain type faces (as per their earlier brief) to compare and contrast. I sent my ideas off to them, I knew which one they'd go for and it was the one they picked. "We love it".
I briefed myself on the website and sent them a request for feedback on my ideas for the structure. What sections do they want? The usual... about us, press, stockists, contact etc. Asked for information about their approach, how they wanted to be perceived, what their essential concept was, etc. Even threw in a few ideas for fun stuff, news feeds, tshirt of the day, providing a look book that they could update themselves, etc. Ended the self-brief with, "get back to me ASAP so that I can get started on the website."
Started working on flagged tshirt designs while waiting, did some more, a week went by with me waiting for feedback on the website from them. I sent four emails over the period of about 10 days remind them that in order to get started on any initial mockups I required the structure to be set. I said in one email, "Hey guys, can we get this structure hashed out, I've been waiting a week here in which time I could've had this site done" "Sorry been busy, We'll get back to you". You don't build a house without knowing how many bedrooms are required. In the meantime presented them with tshirt artwork and a very rough general look and feel for the website which they liked. Mentioned during this meeting that I really needed some feedback on my self-brief to get started in earnest. They at this point wanted 6 tshirt designs. So I went ahead on those.
They finally got back to me on the structure on Friday 23rd of July. They also briefed me on yet more tshirt artwork. The following week I had other client work to do and considering that I had waited so long to get that go ahead and they still did not have any of the copy, or look book photos done I put it aside for the time being. Did some research, proof of concepts on technology etc. So I would be ready to go after I finished this other job.
Monday 02 August received a "what's up email" replied saying that I had this week to dedicate towards getting the website and rest of the illustrations done. Set up a meeting for initial mockups for Tuesday night. Afternoon received message titled, "Don't Kill the Messenger" basically firing me from the job. Drop everything. Willing to pay for identity and that's it. Reason stated: "Rubbed friends partner the wrong way" ended with want to get some beers this week? WTF!?!? Called immediately spoke with partner he said, "I was expecting this to be done weeks ago" another WTF? If you've read this so far, then we're on the same page here and this guy is in a completely different book. I just received confirmation 1 week ago. They had not provided me with anything besides colour and type face guidelines and agreement on the structure. I said how can you fire me without even seeing the fruit of my labor, he agreed to maintain the tuesday meeting. Prior to this there was not one caution, one what's going on or one peep of disappointment before this came out of the blue. Everything had been puppies and rainbows. I sent them a humble and professional apology stating my confusion and willingness to see this through as I had spent a lot of time on it already. They accepted, saying sorry for any miscommunication on our part as well. Hunky dory, it was a hiccup nothing more. So, I bashed out the job, lorem ipsum all the copy, did some on the fly illustrations for place holders and sent them the rough on Tuesday as agreed stating that it was of course rough and I'd walk them through the animations and workings on the phone. What would generally be known as the first round. They called first thing they said was, "This is so off brief it's not even funny, we stand by our previous statement and are taking you off the job completely" No collaboration, no changes, no constructive criticism, nothing just a big fuck you very much. This was a design based upon the initial page mockup that they liked earlier. I changed the typeface to Clarendon though. Said that I would settle for X amount for work put in, was rebuked stating that "I had done very little in regards, questioned my professionality and communication skills."
As with every job however, I keep a detailed log of everything that happens, hours spent, what was discussed during meetings, what commissions I received, verbal agreements, etc. We were at 131 hours so far. I set up a meeting for Wednesday night to resolve this matter. I printed out every email and bit of correspondance, the timesheet which I corroborated with the emails dates and exhibits for discussion and every bit of artwork that I had done for them so far. It was tight and they shit themselves not expecting it at all. I think they thought that I would crawl in there and beg for forgiveness. After that treatment? I presented them with the final invoice, for the full amount for all the work that I had been commissioned to do. They said they won't pay. As "nothing had been accomplished", but they fired me before I had a chance to deliver and with absolutely no reason. How could I have finished the website without any artwork, photos, copy, from them? They have already had the identity printed on tags. I have not released that artwork to them obviously. I do not have a signed contract, only verbal agreements with emails that attest to those agreements. I am planning on taking this to court but does anyone out there know where I might stand? Any good solicitors, or advice? Am I up shit creek without a paddle? I've never encountered this before.
Been in the business for 8 years have made a great living off of it and worked for clients big and small. Never been taken off a job or fired before. Never even done very much self-promotion, always received jobs via word of mouth and clients that i've had in the past are still clients today.
Thanks for reading. It's a big whinge, but I need some support here from the community. Hopefully it also provides a cautionary tale.
Regards,
N.
- gsd0
sorry, what was that?
- ********0
ummm, and the abridged version?
- normal0
In short:
Did a bunch of work. Got fucked over.
- ********0
did u have a contract?
- normal0
You'll have to read the entire thing for the nuance.
However, it was based on verbal contract with email that corresponds to that.
- ********0
i tried to skim that...he thought it would be done quicker and sacked you?
Why didn't you specify timescales and delvierables at the start of the project? I would say that's more important than the 50% upfront.
- Ell0
This is often recommended
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/cs…
Good Luck with it. Be interesting to know who it is when you are ready to name and shame.
- ********0
if you fucking think i'm gonna read all that fuckin waffle you posted - then you're out of ur fucking tree son!
(j/k) take legal action. take all your emails and correspondance to a lawyer.
- normal0
We did specify timescales. I said 5 days total and never diverged from that though we never set an actual date. But further on, other commissions were added and i had requested and not been provided with materials for completion of the website specifically.
It was a very organic process, we engaged in a creative enterprise together, me in good faith. I would never charge them more than I initially bid for and would have stuck to my original figure regardless of how long it ended up taking.
What's the logic in telling me that they expected the website weeks ago and yet had not provided me with the necessary components or feedback to complete it?
The blame rests squarely on their shoulders as I had been chasing them they had never been chasing me for anything ever. I was driving the project and taking the initiative to divine what they wanted as you would do.
- patnoodle0
OK, just read it - they sound like a bunch of dicks. You should have a decent case against them if you've got all your time etc logged and all files/sketches kept. Not sure how the law works with the whole 'verbal contract' stuff though.
Good luck - hope you can fuck them over yourself and get your money.
- Elfangio0
Well I can't give you any legall info as i dont know how things work in UK, justice and stuff. But if you can suck them until their last penny!!Bastards...
I go in holiday I go in holiday
:P
- normal0
Elfangio:
That project was going to pay for my holiday.
- ********0
this flying by the seat of you pants never works when it comes to money and contracts. you have to get timescales and deliverables in writing...before any work is commenced. If you don;t do that, then your just asking for trouble.
- normal0
Patnoodle:
Thanks for reading it.
I believe they tried to pull what I call a "silverback" manuever, as in we're big honchos with lots of pull from Arcadia Group etc. Put me over a barrel and try to fuck me, unfortunately and much to their surprise, I have clenched my butt cheeks and will rip their dicks off.
The logs are superb, I even have specific quotes from conversations. Any solicitor would be proud.
- Elfangio0
Hey normal I feel sorry for dude but there is nothing i can do about it, except good luck on you fight, never give up! ;)
You should be happy for me then...
I go in holiday, I go in holiday!
:D
- ********0
read it too, thanks for taking the time to write it :p
take the cheeky hooors for every penny you are due, you wanna tell them that you are going to charge them for time spent attempting to get recompense
- normal0
Elfangio:
I won't. If I felt that there was any blame to be taken on my part or any miss step then I would probably not be pursuing this as I am my own worst client and would be kicking myself in the ass.
Have a good holiday.
- normal0
Mx_OnD:
That's a superb idea.
(buttocks clench tighter)
- timtastic0
If all else fails, take all your work and sell it to another client. If they didn't pay you, then they are likely violating copyright laws, so you can get your new client to sue them for infringement.
Yeah I'm not a lawyer so don't take any of that seriously but it would be cool if you could do that :]
- normal0
Ell:
This is often recommended
Good Luck with it. Be interesting to know who it is when you are ready to name and shame.
_______________
Well I have no problems naming and shaming as a warning to all of you out there if you really want to know. Thanks for the link I have also contacted NABS for advice in how to proceed.
Illustrated People is the company.
Like I said they sell in Top Man so some of you may even own some of their shirts.