what should I charge?
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- SLAZ
ok, I am sending a proposal to a big dairy/manufacturing company to do artwork/design for 2 new product they are going to be selling. The product is a frosting/icing... and whipped topping... exactly like CoolWhip, but to the bakery industry, so the design is more generic.
I have done packaging, but not a project like this. I imagine they will probably make $1-2 million this year on this product, but they gave me no idea of budget and I couldn't feel them out on money either, so I am stuck...
I am thinking it wil take me probably about 8-10 hours or so after all is said and done with design and pre-press...
what are your thoughts?
- SLAZ0
i have to have a proposal by end of day today.... arrghh
- robotron3k0
hmmm.... $400 per day, about 3-4 days with review, my guesstimate around 1250-1500...
- freshmode0
SLAZ,
Yesterday I responded to a simlar topic that might be of some help to you. I bumbed the topic just now so it should be right below this one.
It is towards the end.
good luck!
- robotron3k0
freshmode is also pretty right on as far as client review + design effort, also I would add 30-50% down on the project once an agreement has been signed... put that right there, up front in the contract, this will weed out clients who are fishing for "free" work and make them know your serious...
- SLAZ0
thanks fresh and robo...
very detailed and informative writing, thanks. I ahve a contract and always get 40%-50% up front on all projects. I jsut had not worked on a project like this, so I wanted some insight.
Thanks again guys!
- propa0
1250-1500? Higher please...
Get the Graphic Arts Guild Price Guide. The prices are a little hi, however for a project that is going to net 1 - 2 Million... A YEAR.
You would need 32 contracts like that a year just to make 48000 dollars a year, if you do the math on this, the amount of work and such don’t make sense. Do you get 32 contracts like this a year? They are buying your physical and mental talents. 1500 for a project like this is obscene. I think people want to see these types of low prices because they feel better with the rates they get.
Good luck with this.
- ********0
I would charge at least 25 to 50K.
- smoothblend0
good lord! 50k wow..
- SLAZ0
50k would be nice
- freshmode0
Again, it all goes back to the "agency" approach. If a well known agency would be involved. You would see a retainer fee setup. You would then see some talent broght to the table. Maybe a creative director & a senior designer.
You say that this is very generic but in this case, generic is the audience. It has to be done well and it doesn't have to look bad or be cheap just because it is generic. If it didn't matter to the client how generic it looked, they would do it them selves.
Consider how long this would really take you to do if you were an employee of someone. This might go on for about a month.
One thing I do have to say. Your skill is only as respeced by your clients as you respect it. Also the industry that you are in isn't taken serious if you low ball every project.
Hell, you think 50k is a lot. The television ABC paid around 7 Million for their "Yellow & Black" branding. That was just to get the brand established. Not to mention the firm(s) that also made loot on anything ABC. Any packaging, any ads, any print work, any promo stuff. Tons of stuff came out of that. 7 Million was just the begining.
I would say 50k if they were a consumer brand. Even more at that point. But I would probably go for 10k - 15k. It depends on many things though. Will this be repurposed? Will other product lines take on the look & feel of this. If so, make your money now for the concept because you will not be able to charge 10k - 15k once the look has already been established. How many years will it last?
I would like to know how this turns out for you. Pretty interesting.
word!
- robotron3k0
true you could go higher, 400 per day is 100k per year, i'm not sure of the skill level of the designer nor the market, like ny vs. austin, the prices you could charge would be a huge difference... if the person is on the lower end of design i would try for at least 2,500 per week, agencies try to charge about 5k per week per employee, depending, but this looks like a smaller operation, meaning it's not Chevron or Ms. Bairds, so in this instance i don't believe the Graphic Arts Price Guild prices will hold up. So i say play it by ear, and based on your relationship with the client how far they can be "pushed" or if you can build a good relation$hip with them. There are many factors to consider, but a few things for sure to have on your side; a contract, fair pricing, smokin creative, sticking to the timeline contracted for-and if they have scope creep, be ready to make a change order if they ask for more than contracted for, yet another way you can finish out the project with more more monies and a job well done.
good luck...
- SLAZ0
can you give me an example of a "change-order"? i understand the term, but how would you build that into a contract? or react?
- robotron3k0
just put this line in your statement of work:
Change Management
The customer is entitled to request any change at any time. The change management process is designed to determine the nature of that request and whether it compromises any previously completed deliverables and/or the integrity of the timeline. The change management process will provide a mutually agreeable course of action. Any change that will affect cost and/or project plan will be communicated in writing to the client prior to proceeding with the change request.
...once you have agreed on the project at hand, they are free to change it at any time, you would just have to analyse the effort that would be required and come back to them with an additional cost breakdown, this is not a subtraction to the SOW, it's more of giving the client added value incase they like your work and want you to do more with the brand...
try that,
robop.s.: and don't forget to wear your tiny german style designer glasses to make yourself look smarter...
- freshmode0
Very well put.
You can add that or create a contract of it. Either way it works the same. Something very important.
As I mentioned in the other thread. Clients don't usually have an issue with paying top dollar, unless it is a bad client and you don't want them to begin with, if you come correct in your communications. You have to service your clients in the amount they pay you for.
Stuff like this only makes you look more aware of what could happen and shows that you have the experience and know-how to expect something like this. Not to mention that you are trying to give them your best and receive more work from them. Often times they change their mind in the middle of the project.
One thing we have done is create a contract that can hold up for your entire business relationship with a client. That way you don't need a new contract for each project. Instead, you create schedules & outlines. At this point, a client should already know your hourly rate and be aware that they are paying based on that. You can still give time & budget estimates, but your project schedule & outline will review & explain those details. Then you bill them in increments.
Agency style doesn't mean you need an agency. Just the same level support & professionalism. The money will come from there.
Their are lots of freelance Creative Directors that are called upon to put the right teams together for projects & manage them. In a sense, that is what you are doing.
Get your money! They will get theirs.
Cheers!
- Mimio0
Bill like a consultant (i.e. by the hour) that's what you are.
- tripleflux0
for a project like this, an hourly rate probably doesn't apply. dunno- 20k?
- SLAZ0
ok guys... proposal sent.. fingers crossed... i will let you guys know what happens.
- sauerbraten0
yes, i also feel you should get more than 1500, 8-10hrs doesn't seem right, perhaps if the design was done and all you were doing was production, if you're designing this thing, that's worth a helluva lot more!
- Mimio0
Seriously people, telling someone they should charge 20k for 10 hours of work is irresponsible.
- chach0
depends how many whippits, er, whip cream samples, you get.