instant hate
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- ********0
I'll steal your pop tarts like I stole your bike.
- ********0
anybody have Treefrog?
- gravityroom0
As far as I know, ITC etc don't use staff designers for type. Those companies act as distributers with arrangements with the type designers and take a percentage for each sale.
For example, Emigre distributes fonts designed by Zuzana Licko. She then makes a percentage based on each sale.
- unknown0
how can you compare a typeface to a car?
herb you make me laugh so hard
borrowing=stealing
I can "borrow" a font and make it look like my own font
that's what picasso did
- monokrom0
The position that Vena, Dolan, and gravityroom are taking is morally correct and common sense. The same principle holds for software. If you drive small type foundries and software developers out of business, you won't like what's left over : huge faceless megacorps that own their product categories.
Comments like "And believe me, when I have my own firm, I'll pay for my fonts, but I just don't see the point in paying for fonts for school projects." tickle me because I know that the same person, when they start their own firm, will probably be living hand to mouth initially.
The justification then will be "I'm competing with kids in Albania who'll do a complete site for 15 cents. If I try to bill clients for software or a font, they'll laugh in my face. After I buy food and essential oils, I barely have enough cash left at the end of the month to pay for cable tv and prokrinds. Do you want me to STARVE dude?".
If you're going to rationalize cheating other creatives (type designers, software developers) now, then you're probably going to keep following that pattern indefinitely - you'll always be able to think of better uses for your money than paying for typefaces and software.
Jeebus should smite anyone that uses cracked software and then runs to web forums to bitch about rips of their work.
- ********0
So students should pay for type and software cuz if they don't, when get out of school, they won't pay for it.
Good, lets discourage students by making them pay everything they use to learn.
- monokrom0
oeuf
> So students should pay for
> type and software cuz if they
> don't, when get out of school,
> they won't pay for it.My point was that the thieves are usually lying to themselves (or at least to us) when they pretend that they'll get their acts together after they graduate. Most won't.
Students (and everyone else) should pay for the type and software that they want to use because stealing is sh#tty no matter what excuse you like to use.
I'm a coder now, but my degree is in Chem engineering. Every semester, without fail, I had to shell out anywhere between $500 and $1000 just for *books* alone. I was a brokeass student too, but I managed to buy the books that I needed. Rich daddy or mommy? No. Multiple P/T jobs and lots of ramyun for dinner? Yes.
Stop pretending that the world owes you shit and get your ass into gear.
- jarno0
you're forgetting the reason of students not getting it, which is they are poor. even if they couldn't get it for free, they couldn't afford it, and they would just have to be without it. but when they do get it for free, they get to like it and buy it WHEN they CAN afford.
- ********0
Wow... so much hate. I'll keep on taking fonts for free and software until I work and have the money to afford it. If you think everyone's the same, well thats your problem. I just don't believe, as a student, that paying ridiculous amounts of money for a learning tool is ok.
- monokrom0
jarno
See my previous post. I was a student brokeass once too. If you are serious about your vocation, you'll either make the money to buy the tools that you want, buy tools that you can afford and make do, or bide your time until you can afford them.
If you're a design student, use the school labs where the systems are loaded with the software that you need.
Too crowded? Schedule your time so that you can be there when there are stations open.
It's called living like a responsible adult. Lots of people do it.
As far as the "piracy as advertising" rap, that's another myth that irresponsible people use to justify their behavior.
When software companies and type foundries don't mind being ripped off by students, they give their products away for free (Microsoft, for one, actually does this quite often - giving away copies of Visual Studio to cs students like candy at Halloween). When they give you steep educational discounts instead (or no discount at all), this is a signal to you that they actually want you to buy their stuff, not steal it.
- jarno0
well monokrom you obviously had better conditions in your life. happy for you.
- lemon7140
im damned before im saved,so im stealing everything in sight.
- ********0
vena and all these guys are simply correct. there is no arguing that font designers should get paid for their work.
I take issue with the pontificating. I know vena and everyone of you fuckers have used illegal installs and unregistered shareware... AND Napster.
with that said... I am morally corrupt and will continue to steal everything I can.
PEACE
- vena0
funny... i didn't notice you breaking through my firewall...
babyarm, if you're a good salesman you never need to buy fonts or software. half of the crap i own, i got my school to pay for, the other half i got clients to. it's pretty simple to sell it on a client, unless it's some dodgy little mom and pop outfit:
"you can't have that font in your project unless you buy it, it's illegal otherwise. here's what it looks like with free alternatives."
and of course the free alternatives purposely look just slightly crappy. don't go too crappy or they know you're conning them. just a little bit off :)
- vena0
and a note to you students - if you can't do your work without that one specific font that you absolutely have to steal, you're not learning anything. you're unresourceful and unimaginative.
- vena0
and in all seriousness, i'll say it again - nothing i say is gonna stop you from doing it. it's so ingrained into your brain that you're owed a free lunch that you'll never listen to anyone until you get caught.
all i'm saying is, have enough friggen sense not to do that shit here. this is the most highly trafficked design forum on the web. are you retarded? it's like asking to get a letter in the mail with a nice letterhead telling you you're getting your software audited.
- ********0
you never denied having used illegal software installs and napster you sort of dodged the issue so I could only assume that you were guilty.
as for making the client pay for the font... fonts are part of my tool set. I would never bother them with such minutia. you are saying that to be morally correct you must buy the font every time you use it in a design.
technically, if you have the client pay for it, it belongs to them and you are then ripping off the type foundry should you re-use their font with another client down the road.
unless what you are saying is you must buy the font every time you sell a design to a client. see?
so what is the deal? why are ripping off these type foundries... or... why are you ripping off clients? this is immoral. I won't stand for it.
- vena0
man i don't know where you've been, but i said flat out at least twice that i don't use illegal software nor do i have any mp3s. go back, i'm pink so it's easy to find my posts.
"you are saying that to be morally correct you must buy the font every time you use it in a design."
no, i'm saying that if you don't own the font but want to use it in a client's project, the client is obligated to buy it. if they refuse, you can't use that font. this isn't a morality issue, it's friggen business. if you don't know how to do business, good luck surviving in the coming years :)
"if you have the client pay for it, it belongs to them"
if this is the way your contracts are layed out, i feel very very sorry for you.
- ********0
have you ever used napster or unregistered shareware or an illegal software install? a simple question...
- vena0
yup, i used napster. for music i own, before i knew how to encode mp3s (this is legal). never used pirated software, never had the need. the only thing i really use my computer for is business, so i explained that part already. i don't play games on it, waste of time and i have a dreamcast. :)