WYSIWYG or Hand Code?
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- mitsu0
"I guarantee you I can make a 40 page website and go back in and fix the few mistakes Dreamweaver makes in a lot less time then it would take anyone to code the whole thing by hand."
yeah, if it's just a bunch of pretty pictures.
- Leifer0
Hehe, Well put!
- monokrom0
There are always exceptons to every rule, of course, but I think that if you're building 100-pp sites of static HTML, you should probably put the crack pipe down now anyway.
- unknown0
...And if you're making a 40 page site like that you're probably going about it the wrong way anyway!
- mitsu0
"There are always exceptons to every rule, of course, but I think that if you're building 100-pp sites of static HTML, you should probably put the crack pipe down now anyway. "
true
that's where meta-code comes into play for me.
- Leifer0
Why do you care what method others use to create their sites? As long as they work. You're all like a bunch of old women nagging each other about knitting or embroidery.
"Oh, Betty, it's knit-one pearl-two, not knit-one, drop a stitch..."
- wo0
When I started this thread, I was just interested in what everyone used.
Then the basterd blew up on me.
- Leifer0
That's fair enough, but it's just escalated into petty bickering. Newsflash - nobody's wrong. OK?
- dstlb0
"the problem is when you get kiddies with DW who don't know the first thing about proper markup and call themselves a 'designer'."
...seems to be some confusion here, knowing proper markup doesn't make you a designer either.
- AD0
I think it's super inportant to be able to understand and write your own code.
That being said, for me DW is the way to go. I don't get why people who only handcode, who have never even tried DW are so quick to dismiss it's usefullness. Just hit F10 when you need to. DW + handcoding equals a better work flow for me and time is money.
- sp0
because, this industry lacks any sort of standards. unlike graphic design, industrial design, architecture, etc...the web is the only immature industry where any uneducated, untrained kid can get a program and call themselves a designer.
in order to advance the web in any meaningful direction, designers need to learn the right way to do things...not the, "oh, i did it like this for years, and i'll keep doing it..." way.
html is a joke. the body that CREATED it even says so. and you have an army of people who have been doing it poorly for nearly a decade and are either too stupid to learn the right way or too proud to accept they're wrong.
some people actually take this industry seriously and try to make it a better place.
in the end, there is nothing wrong with using dreamweaver if you actually know what you're doing. but the fact is, most don't.
and, just saying the end product is ok because the client doesn't know the difference and it 'works' - at least in ie on windows and mac is good enough.
it's not good enough, and if you don't have the understand to accept that, then move onto something else as a profession.
i don't know how to fix a car, but i hope the mechanic who i am paying doesn't say - oh well, he doesn't know and it's 'good enough' because i don't want to do it right....
it's no wonder the majority of sites are nothing more than fluffy crap.
- mitsu0
well, i think it just comes down to the kind of work you do. if you just did html layouts all day, then yeah, i suppose it's warranted.
personally, it's just easier to code everything by hand since i'm already there writing asp and javascript, etc. oh, and i use server-side includes which save time too.
- breeding0
i have a couple wysiwyg editors on here, and for something quick that i dont mind being sloppy ill use them. 99% of the time i handcode though. That being said i type 80 words/minute and come from a programming background, where the bulk of my work is still in creating applications. Its easier and faster for me to handcode things than take the time to learn a piece of software well enough that id be able to keep up with my current production rate.
- vespa0
The only coding I do is in flash. For html sites I just design and cut up and the production team do the rest.
When I first started I thought I'd be helpful by putting some pages together in DW and when the main coder saw it her face went green. Apparently DW is code of the devil's spawn due to all the extraneous lines it creates.
- AD0
sp, sure anyone can open up DW or even *gasp* - Frontpage and make a website and call themself a designer or a developer. Similarily people can open up Word, write something and call themselves a writer.
Are they a writer or designer at the end of the day, in terms of title? ... hmmm i guess the answer is 'who cares?'
Even if that's what they call themselves -are they 'skilled ' writers or developers? Chances are no. Will they be able to land big clients, bid on jobs with examples of their work and submit proposals justifying their abilities - no.
Sure they might get a $500 website contract here or there but who cares - I know I don't want those gigs.
I guess I just don't care at the end of the day if people are claiming to be something they are not. I think that happens in many industries but if you are good at what you do and professinal - I don't they will or should affect you.
- Epictive0
Wow geeze, got you guys all excited. Didn’t mean for you all to take it so literally. Must have every purest hardcore coder in the world after me now. I started coding in Notepad, now I code and design layout in Dreamweaver. Where I can type the first two letters of a tag and it fills in the rest and closes it for me. And I can visually lay out tables etc... It’s faster and I can spend more time doing what I love, Design. Am I wrong?
-A
- unknown0
Dreamweaver has a nasty habit are putting 10 tags around one piece of text, should you decide to change it a little bit. Perhaps Dreamweaver wasn't hand-coded itself?
- sp0
true.
and on a side note: dreamweaver mx produces much better code than any of it's predecesors.
and, is probably the best wysiwyg editor to use.
- unknown0
Design with code. AMEN.
- AD0
DW made my page 54k when it could have been 50k - but then again I have a 1.8mg .swf on the page as well