Intellectual Dark Web

Out of context: Reply #146

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  • drgs-1

    What Peterson keeps protesting against is politicization of LGBT culture

    To use Pride Month in this thought experiment:

    Initially Pride Month was meant to be a time when everyone could embrace who they are, and equally importantly: where straight people could join and express their personal support for the LGBT minorities

    Now assume for a moment that this kind of support becomes mandatory by law, ie. you are required to participate in one form or another. The moment this happens, the number of people who express their personal support for LGBT is zero
    Like in the army -- everyone gets a buzz cut, looks the same and accepts it whether they like it or not

    This is an unthinkable scenario, with some exceptions like that dad who got jailed for misgendering his daughter, transgender pronoun bills etc.

    However, in America the there is this overwhelming peer pressure, the fear of being canceled out, completely paralyzing taboo to even mention any of these topics, so it practically becomes an unwritten social law, and the effect is exactly similar -- there is no way to show your own free, personal support for LGBT, because by default you already do

    Peterson's stance (and mine) is not anti-transgender, its specifically against legislation/politicization of LGBT

    You can prohibit negative attitudes, like racial slurs, hate speech etc, but you cannot impose a positive attitude, because due to human psychology it immediately flips 180 degrees, and the cretins do not realize that they are doing LGBT a bear favor

    Discuss

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    • there's always been "legislation/ politicization" of LGBT, the difference now is they can marry and won't be prosecuted for having sex12xu
    • the biggest problem with Peterson isn't that he's a hater but that he's a subpar intellectual12xu
    • Sorry who's being forced to support gay pride month? Does that exist in any country in the world?yuekit
    • Peterson wrote a crude, ugly tweet talking about someone's breasts and calling a doctor a criminal. Predictably Twitter doesn't like this tweet, Petersonyuekit
    • then gets to play the victim. Coincidentally he just joined the right-wing culture war site The Daily Wire.yuekit
    • Go to the site and you get a popup with Jordan Peterson's face asking you to sign up for a paid subscription lol.yuekit
    • Are you sure he's really taking a principled stance? Isn't this just more culture war nonsense to promote himself?yuekit
    • No one forces to support pride month, that example was hypothetical, gays are no longer interesting to anyone, his main feud is pronouns and compelled speechdrgs
    • I think this is exaggerated though...search on Twitter and you'll easily find conservatives ranting about "child grooming", their latest weirdyuekit
    • obsession...you'll find openly white nationalist accounts with large followings. It's only when you direct the hate at someone personally like Peterson didyuekit
    • that you get your account penalized like that (not even banned).yuekit
    • No doubt he appeals to them, not sure if this is his intention. Peterson is convinced that we are heading towards criminalization of non-preferred pronounsdrgs
    • so he's deadnaming all trans people just in spite. Twitter ban is an obvious side effectdrgs
    • How different is this comedy bit from what Peterson is doing:
      https://www.youtube.…      drgs
    • I think the reason why some on the left don’t like Peterson is that he calls out their absurdness.Chimp
    • They can’t respond with a reasoned argument so they attack him as a person or just hurl unjustified insults.Chimp
    • Peterson wouldn’t be famous if it wasn’t for the crazy identity politics being played by some on the left.Chimp
    • No, he wouldn't be famous if he didn't play identity politics. You wouldn't know who he was if he didn't constantly bitch and moan..garbage
    • Haha yeah reasoned argument...meanwhile this is what he posted.
      https://i.imgur.com/…      yuekit
    • ..about identity, LGBT rights, etc until eventually he curls up and starts crying again. He's a fucking dinosaur, and he can't handle it.garbage
    • Same as how Gervais' joke is just indicative that he's an out of touch, and his way of dealing with it is writing bad grandpa jokes.garbage
    • So you've got a 60 year old ranting about someone half his age getting surgery done...how is this not creepy as hell?yuekit
    • Obviously trans people can have a difficult time, I'm sure it's very helpful for someone to make such a crude demeaning comment to his millions of followers.yuekit
    • As well as call her doctor a criminal (which he isn't) at a time when right-wing nutcases are gunning people down. Totally normal stuff.yuekit
    • It's surreal to see people pretending this is a reasonable comment...for all we know Peterson was in a benzo fueled delerium when he posted this.yuekit
    • Maybe he does perform for his public. I dont really follow him, I remember him fighting against gender expression being added to the canadian human rights actdrgs
    • Because the law would allow to fine people for not using someones pronouns, and I'm with him on that. This would immediately turn everyone against transdrgs
    • Sure I think it can be debated...but why target someone personally like that?yuekit
    • he targets the physician, but not personally.uan
    • anyway he is probably better off without twitter. he has to much anger inside...could probably use some integral psychology therapy sessions.uan
    • can he look sadder?pango
    • wait... someone got fined for not using someone's pronouns?pango
    • In Canada...drgs
    • https://nypost.com/2…yuekit
    • Pretty intense story...the craziest part is it all started with him trying his daughter's all-meat diet.yuekit
    • Peterson apparently had a bad reaction to this, so he starts taking drugs to deal with the pain...soon he's a total drug addict, becomes suicidal.yuekit
    • He's diagnosed as a schizophrenic but rejects the diagnosis and flies to Russia to undergo "alternative treatment" where they give him even more drugs...yuekit
    • The drugs put him in a coma and he almost dies...also gets COVID at the same time. Now he's back to tell you how to live your life.yuekit
    • https://i.imgur.com/…
      I liked him in that BBC interview though      drgs
    • @yuekit attacking JP for his personal struggle, family dynamic, diet is a little hypocritical particularly when you criticise him for doing exactly the same...Morning_star
    • ..I rarely see you engage and debate his ideas or perspective. He has his faults but who doesn’t. We’re not destroying light bulbs everywhere because Edison...Morning_star
    • ...was a cocaine fiend.Morning_star
    • i want to know who got fined for not using pronounce.pango
    • Some dude was ordered by a court not to misgender his son/daughter, but he did it anyway, went to jail for itdrgs
    • https://www.gaylawne…
      Page 4, 2c      drgs
    • It’s not mandatory, so this entire post is rendered pointless.monospaced
    • He does a lot of things but he fails entirely at calling out the left. All he does is make himself look absurd with his insane, hypotheticalsmonospaced
    • Morning_star what ideas? This is what Peterson posted:
      https://i.imgur.com/…      yuekit
    • What drgs wrote was actually more substantive. It seems like Jordan Peterson has a problem with trans people, otherwise why is he so angry about an actressyuekit
    • deciding they want to identify as a man and having some cosmetic surgery done?yuekit
    • Then he says "I'd rather die than delete the tweet"...lol. It seems over the top doesn't it?yuekit
    • Why does it look like he was fined for something else...pango
    • peterson is the getaway drug to nazism thats why the altright adores him so much..neverscared
    • @yeukit. I’m not sure it’s productive to ringfence a tweet and claim you don’t understand the idea behind it. Your either choosing to ignore everything else....Morning_star
    • ...you’ve written in these threads or you truly don’t know anything about him.Morning_star
    • The blanket argument is that you can't deny all the IDW are sacred cows of the alt-right. "Look they have Dr. beside their name".garbage
    • They're all libertarians at best, and Joe Rogan just threw his hat in the ring for Ron DeSantis so.. lol at any liberal cosplay from him.garbage
    • @Morning_star You keep suggesting there is some more nuanced version of what these people are saying but I watched the video here...yuekit
    • https://www.qbn.com/…yuekit
    • Just like with Bret Weinstein when you listen to the full version it's worse not better lol. Why is he so angry?yuekit
    • I'm willing to believe that unlike Weinstein, Peterson has written intelligent stuff back in the day..but at this point he's just another culture war demagogue.yuekit
    • The question that he's consistently asked is 'when do the left go too far?'. We see the rise of fascism GLOBALLY and we're still not sure where 'too far' is.Ianbolton
    • He conflates a lot of things to the left overstepping a line, yet we're still not sure where that line is when it comes to the degredation of democracyIanbolton
    • @yuekit In that video, in a nutshell, what do you think he's saying?Morning_star
    • @Yeukit, 'nuanced' is probably not the most appropriate term, however, it works for brevity. Of course I can see when JP is awkward, blustering rand full of...Morning_star
    • ...rage. He IS or was a drug addict. He DOES have a strange diet however, not every single thing that comes out of his mouth is valueless and in particular...Morning_star
    • ...loaded with political rhetoric and opinion.Morning_star
    • I genuinely don't think he's saying much...rather than asking me can you pick out the intelligent or reasonable part of what he's saying?yuekit
    • I think you have to be careful not to assume substance where there isn't any...these guys like Peterson and Weinstein often wrap up obvious or stupid pointsyuekit
    • in pseudo-profound rhetoric. Like in this video he spends time ranting about this seeming contradiction he's identified... if Elliot Page was already a man whyyuekit
    • did he need to get breast surgery? Peterson seems to think he's hit on some killer argument but it's just idiotic isn't it?yuekit
    • It's also funny how he's so outraged at getting a penalty of his Twitter account...then he asks why did I get the penalty and goes on to list a numberyuekit
    • of what seem like totally valid reasons...he personally attacked someone, called her doctor a criminal, the "pride" thing can be interpreted as anti-gay, etc...yuekit
    • The tweet hints at violence...all of that before you even get to the pronouns issue. Like on some level it's impressive that he managed to include so manyyuekit
    • ban-worthy things in one tweet, but in that case why is he pretending to be shocked/ outraged? It comes across as performative, like he's being a drama queen.yuekit
    • I don't disagree with most of what you've said. I'm not sure i'd interpret it as hinting at violence...that seems a bit of a stretch. I think his fundamental...Morning_star
    • ...quest is the search for moral/human truth and understanding. It's doesn't have a political perspective. His adoption of universal truths found in most ...Morning_star
    • ...religious and social myths/stories applies (in his world) as a measure for everything. 'Pride' in the pantheon of myth is a negative action that has eons...Morning_star
    • ...of experience and learnings. Where he misses the target i think is his insistence that 'Pride' and 'Pride' are comparable.Morning_star
    • As for his attack on Elliot, i don't think he's wrong from a medical/psychologica... perspective. Elliot has a genuine issue with gender and has made the quite...Morning_star
    • ...extreme decision to have corrective surgery. In JP eye, this doen't address the underlying psychological issues and is likely to cause Elliot problems in...Morning_star
    • ...the future.Morning_star
    • The doctor that performed the surgery has likely done it without the necessary psychological care that is inherent in his hippocratic oath. JP feels that,...Morning_star
    • ...it's not just a case of doing what the customer wants. There should be a complete duty of physical and mental careMorning_star
    • Again you seem to be giving a more moderate version that is nowhere to be found in the words of the so-called expert himself.yuekit
    • He doesn’t say there needs to be additional psychological care, instead he seems to be saying gender surgery should never be allowed at all.yuekit
    • And then goes on to state that if this causes mental suffering for people who are transgender, too bad.yuekit
    • We're looking at this through different lenses Yeukit. You're looking for reasons to criticise and take him down. And, I just see a clumsy but logical...Morning_star
    • ...extension of his attempts to understand truth. I don't think his intentions are malicious I just think he's evolved...Morning_star
    • ...into adopting shortform media channels and it doesn't do him any favours.Morning_star
    • Just to be clear I don't spend much time hating on or worrying about Jordan Peterson lol...I do think the public would benefit from better quality discussion.yuekit
    • This hysteria about trans people, whether you are on the left or right, has reached ridiculous levels. Less than 1% of college students identify as trans...yuekit
    • The number of people getting gender surgery in the USA is on the order of several thousand per year in a country of 330 million.yuekit
    • So in a world where trans people are more accepted what changes? Almost nothing...just like with gay marriage it's doubtful anyone will even notice unlessyuekit
    • they go out searching for reasons to be offended (as Jordan Peterson apparently does). If you want to talk human nature, a far more interesting phenomenon mightyuekit
    • be this ability to invent moral panics out of nothing...similar to the hysteria about Satanism in the 80s they talk about here.
      https://archive.ph/4…      yuekit
    • I think you just made his point for him, why should less than 1% of the population dictate the language everyone has to adopt. Language evolves naturally...Morning_star
    • ...over time to reflect the common parlance of the day.Morning_star
    • OK so Canada has this law that could penalize people for publicly misgendering someone...one person has been charged so far back in 2019. No other country hasyuekit
    • Which side is panicking? Seems to me there far more bluster and faux offence from the LGBT camp than Peterson and his cohorts.Morning_star
    • this that I'm aware of...also some irony in Peterson demanding total free speech but he wants to dictate other peoples' entire life choices.yuekit
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