capitalism

Out of context: Reply #304

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  • colin_s1

    i cannot understand in this day and age how money and capitalism are lauded, or even defended.

    yes it is true no -ism, structure or system of government has ever succeeded past a certain epoch - yet to blame the system itself is to blame the tool and not the carpenter.

    to give a single human, or perhaps a small cabal of them, grotesque power over the fates of all others, will introduce god knows what kind of psychological complexes and ideas of self-validation ... that revolting ayn rand piece is a great example of how rich white men pat themselves on the back for their (often un-earned) wealth, because it distances money from negative action or consequence yet still esteems it as a "moral center."

    socialism is not the answer, but it is a step in the right direction - capitalism is a system that promotes greed, corruption, envy... it is inherently divisive for the sake of markets instead of supportive of humanism for the sake of society. it is inherently corrupt and deceitful. there is nothing dignified or honorable about capitalism or those who would support it as a proper ideology.

    yes power does corrupt and at the upper tiers of all systems there exists a leader gone mad. that is the failure of humans to design and maintain systems of government that can keep pace with the size of empire, and our lack of ability to create and keep in check forms of government from local to international.

    the point is that these things take time, and to abandon that effort is the ultimate form of selfish denial; a "take the money and run" mentality that has already lead america to a place of national misery (regardless of political ideology), and the world to the brink of collapse, while the elites will continue to hoard wealth because their capitalist fantasies DO work - just only for them - and the rest obviously are the ones at fault.

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    • "has lead america to a place of national misery" and "the world to the brink of collapse" LOLOL OKnb
    • more people are being pulled out of poverty than ever before. So what do you suggest? Until something takes it's place it will continue to evolve like natureIanbolton
    • lots of people at the bottom have more faith in capitalism than socialism to get them out of poverty- it works for a lot of people, not all of whom are the 1%Fax_Benson
    • I highly recommend you to read the book: Sapiens - the history of humankind. It will give you a glimpse how we got to this point.zaq
    • and lots of people see socialism as something that is done to the working class, rather than for them - or more importanly, by them.Fax_Benson
    • people need education and work, I don't care how you call the system but to be sustainable it must be productive, if not just look at Venezuelaernexbcn
    • they managed to ruin a country in just 20 years, money doesn't come from the trees, an economy needs to be productive in order to sustain itself and a societyernexbcn
    • if you could pick and choose policies, it would sell, but it always seems to come with ideological rules and caveats and crazy people attached.Fax_Benson
    • working class people don't vote for it, which is a bit of a hindrance.Fax_Benson
    • elites hoard wealth in any political system. More so in socialist and authoritarian systems where their creed is "Socialism for you and capitalism for me"hotroddy
    • Every man woman and child not only yearns for money and things. But more of them. Always.robthelad
    • What I don't get is why the dialogue always attacks the extremes, a mix of both ideologies is an option.T-Dawg
    • A regulated market, with support for the proletariat.T-Dawg
    • That's prettymuch what progressivism is.T-Dawg
    • Yet the media portrays it as "socialism", and basically straw-man attacks the ideology.T-Dawg
    • At the same, I find crony capitalism is often mistaken for the same thing as ideological capitalism.T-Dawg
    • And maybe some of the issues that we have with the current state of "capitalism" would be improved if we addressed the cronyism.T-Dawg
    • socialism is only as good as the people. so inevitably spectrum of how effective social policies can be.hotroddy
    • if your citizens are shitty unproductive, unskilled people who feel the gov't owes them something than you'll have shitty socialism.hotroddy
    • if society puts pressure on you to work and be productive and social policies are in place as a 'safety net' than social expenditures won't bankrupt the nationhotroddy
    • and your country be occupied by complacent, unskilled, uncompetitive and lazy people. You don't have to look very hard to find CONCRETE case studies.hotroddy
    • I think it's a mistake to write people off as lazy. There are lots of issues that keep people in states of unemployment. Hopelessness, lack of education, etc.T-Dawg
    • I think it's more the fault of the environment than the fault of the individual. The argument is basically nurture vs. tough love.T-Dawg
    • if by 'environment' you mean cold northern countries than I agree. The more tropical the climate the lazier the people.hotroddy
    • but even then.. west germany had a hard time assimilating eastern germans into society as they were accustomed to 3 hour work days.hotroddy
    • but it i think you are talking about individuals and I'm talking about populations.hotroddy
    • There was a great comment on here a while back that said essentially, none of these terms...capitalism, socialism, etc...yuekit
    • describe what goes on in the real world in any objective way. I don't find them all that helpful to have a debate over.yuekit
    • I think when people these days complain about "capitalism", they are mostly critiquing the current economic system and saying something needs to change.yuekit
    • Which is a totally fair point...the current system is obviously unsustainable. Look at the stats I posted above about the average people has just a few thousandyuekit
    • dollars in net worth while a tiny number of people have more money than god. Meanwhile the government in the U.S. is over $20 trillion in debt which individualyuekit
    • citizens are ultimately going to pay the cost of. Things may be buzzing along mostly OK on the surface, but that's a level of instability that is arguably justyuekit
    • as bad as governments and systems that ultimately collapsed such as the Soviet Union.yuekit
    • capitalism is a system that promotes greed, corruption, envy... haha ignore the nature of man and inherent instincts. a reason church coined original sin asdeathboy
    • a control mechanism and pushed guilt. think you may have fallen pray to the trap. ukit you are right. but realizing functioning foundations and weaknesses isdeathboy
    • super important. the "isms" are generalizations, but there are foundations to the logic. and humans like to use language to distort reality of things or changedeathboy
    • certain truths. its always important to look at the fundemental structures and not ignore them over biased details. it is an absolute if freedom is to be retaindeathboy
    • ed it needs to be in capitalistic leaning society. in collectivist societies the individual is not important. ignoring the nature that every individual findsdeathboy
    • themselves very important. basic foundation blocksdeathboy
    • and as far as the ayn rand piece goes. its solid rationally. you still miss the point of what money is. you assing to many fake values to itdeathboy
    • you ignore the words. that money is mean of transferring value in a system, and how it supports individualistic rightsdeathboy
    • a great exercise for you is to write a post explaining where it fails in reasoning and why.deathboy
    • like in your statement it distance money from negative action or consequences. How so? Money after all is an object with no will but the possessordeathboy
    • but your statement seems to assert it has some power in action and desire to avoid consequences, which sounds liek human interestsdeathboy
    • being projected onto money. work it out. throw out your reasoning. dont do the emotional i dont accept thing and shut it downdeathboy
    • capitalism is like watching a nat geo show about seeing cute creatures ripped to shreds. the alternative is watching animals in a zoo cages. seeing the confusiodeathboy
    • n in the animals base instincts and how they deal with the day to day shit. i always find the latter more so much more cruel nend inhumaedeathboy
    • The idea that you can construct a society based on some ivory tower philosophic principle seems very misguided to me.yuekit
    • Reminds me of 20th century communists who tried to faithfully implement Marx’s ideas while ignoring real world consequences.yuekit
    • exactly yuekit. its principles and foundations. every collectivist throughout history has subjugated invidiualism for the greater gooddeathboy
    • if you are familiar with ant colonies you know how socialism works. the majority works for the top percent. kingdoms, even in modern culture slavery is thingdeathboy
    • all promoting the same foundations. i simply acknowledge an ideal, never to be practiced 100% because of life, becase promoting the other isdeathboy
    • criminal to me. That i may choose who are worthy of slaves, who can rise and be cannon fodder. Mqaybe im pussy but id much rather let natural selection decidedeathboy
    • and i trust it more than my own biasdeathboy
    • You don't think under capitalism the majority work for the top 1%? lol cmon...this is rather naive isn't it?yuekit
    • What system do you imagine not having a top class people work for ukit? but i agree it is naive thinkingdeathboy
    • there is a big difference between organic grouping and forcing behaviors. a big part is freedom to choose and to decide individualisticallydeathboy
    • not all decisions will work, but millions vs singles are better able to find results that resonate.deathboy
    • technically back in the day i'd agree that how people follow corporations or businesses that prop up individuals are solid market mechanismsdeathboy
    • i think i understand where you may be coming from even if incorrect in the upper class. that is a charade these days. a gut feelingdeathboy
    • and i agree it is. but again not an issue of capitalism.this wealth gap has almost 0 to do with capitalism besides people acting in self interests,deathboy
    • its a rigged game fucking people and incentivzing those fucked to fuck themselves for the interests of their influencersdeathboy
    • a sad cycle of history.the dumb and idiotic pawns are a majority. all about how using them which resonates with so many wannabe politiciansdeathboy
    • which is why im all about decentralizing education and would love to remove dept of edu. edu is a foundation and current foundation is junkdeathboy
    • open it up let markets and people decide what works and go from there.. yes scary letting things develop... maybe free edu poipularitydeathboy
    • results in nationalism or some sort of religion. i dont know, no one does, but i just trust in life to find the best way. It always hasdeathboy
    • or what like to say it is what it is because it cannot be anything but what it is in terms of naturedeathboy
    • Exactly 1 dozen consecutive notes. Achievement unlocked.monospaced
    • and exactly capt wow counter. did you count the words and figure out if they were quite efficient for the message? or a avg that would be?deathboy
    • nothing you write is efficient, or a good use of language, but you seem proud of thatmonospaced
    • and that is you just dodging the question. I get it. Lots of words talking about stuff might make those with little feel smaller. So best to try to make itdeathboy
    • into an insult and hope you can bring it down to your level of little quips shared from twitter. But I dont think you see it that way. I think you actuallydeathboy
    • believe you make sound and reasonable arguments. or that you are contributing. that its the only discourse you know, which is another thing postman feareddeathboy
    • tl;drcannonball1978
    • dodging a question? No I'm not! No question was posed of me, dumbfuck. I'm just laughing at how many comments you write.monospaced
    • if you think I posed any argument here, then you are one confused little bitchmonospaced
    • I KNOW I make reasonable arguments, when I choose to. That can't be said of you, though. Just lots of words. Lots and lots of words.monospaced
    • did you count the words and figure out if they were quite efficient for the message? or a avg that would be?deathboy
    • you are so focused on word counts and not substance I'd like to know what word count works for you?deathboy
    • could you say it in less words? If you know better why not help out? Say what I'm trying to say in a more cohesive shortened statement.deathboy
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