Making A Murderder (Netflix Doc)
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- ghandolf0
**SPOILER ALERT**
I mean this whole thread is a spoiler alert but ...this is a recent interview with the defense lawyer posted by a Local12 reporter here (who is the "hot" looking journalist in the series who asks all the questions). She's in Cincinnati now. She's been tweeting out some details not in the documentary. Halbach's phone/Palm pilot found in burn barrel, cat incident was very violent, SA caught with shank in prison...etc.- i think the dude did it. But the whole conspiracy with corrupt cops makes for good tvhotroddy
- The link is to a Dean Strang interview?instrmntl
- Can you add a link to the twitter account? It'd be interesting to read. Thanks!instrmntl
- https://twitter.com/…instrmntl
- Yes. Thanks. That's her Twitter link. I'm also beginning to think he may have done it, but not beyond a reasonable doubt enough to convict.ghandolf
- Then again, it may just be that the cagey ex-boyfriend did it, cops found her & her car, and spent 8 days in the junkyard framing Avery by planting evidence.ghandolf
- hotroddy-1
The film makers new that if you could make a doc about corrupt cops the series would be a hit with viewers.
This is what you get when you combine $400,000 of defense resources + doc that only looked at one point of view.
There is plenty of evidence that shows Steven Avery could have very well done it but that doesn't make for good tv.
The Case Against Steven Avery From Evidence Not Presented In The TV Series:
- Ramanisky20
Just binged through 10 episodes ... Wow!!
I had the same feeling of WTF after watching Paradise Lost about the Memphis 3.
- Julesvm0
I heard about this story a couple years back on the awesome podcast radioloab
worth a listen for some more content:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/27…
- _niko0
-------spoilers so don't read----------------
What really struck me is how the justice system is set up to screw the little guy. The poor and uneducated don't stand a chance really.
This is a documentary and obviously they are trying to tell a compelling story and will be biased one way or another but from the evidence provided ( or lack thereof) there is no way that he is guilty of this crime.
There are just way too many loose ends that weren't resolved like:
-the lack of any dna evidence in any of the suppose crime scenes.
-the tampered with blood veil
-the police call about finding the car a couple of days before it showed up on the property
-the key mysteriously appearing in his bedroom 8 days later
-the bullet conveniently being found in the garage when the manatawac cops were present weeks later.
-the fact that the body was found in various parts around the property and that the key and vehicle were left on the property- I think Steven imight be dumb but not that dumb.
And I won't even get into the involvement of the police and the conspiracy surrounding them but I do believe that they had a vested interest in covering their ads and getting a conviction to stick this time no matter what.- < yup
and how about the conflict of interest part?Ramanisky2 - the guys from Manitowoc county were not even allowed to be on his property without someone watching their every move. The county was being sued for millionsRamanisky2
- How no blood was found in his bedroom? It would be everywhere if the prosecutions case was true.fadein11
- no amount of cleaning is going to hide it.fadein11
- yeah and all that shit in his garage if she was shot in the head in the garage how are you going to clean the blood off of all that clutter?Ramanisky2
- exactly. i don't understand why the Jury overlooked something so critical._niko
- and if that shithole WAS cleaned after a bloody murder, it wouldn't look like it's been collecting dust for 20 years, which it obviously hasmonospaced
- < yup
- Krassy1
Got sucked into this last night before going to bed. "I'll just watch the first episode ..." yeah, right. Next thing I know it's 3am and thank god the battery on my laptop died, or else, I would have been up all night.
- ESKEMA-1
- nb0
It is an extremely biased documentary and they leave so much unanswered.
For me, one of the biggest things was hearing some of the things these Manitowoc cops and Kratz say on-camera.
There's an interview with the sheriff where he says something like, "it makes you wonder if we never let him out for the rape, maybe she would still be alive." My jaw dropped when he said that. How does someone become a sheriff and not understand why you just don't say something as stupid as that to a TV camera?
Also, Kratz's closing statements in the Avery trial that if we are to believe the defence, then we must believe that the cops murdered her. Or, if you think the cops didn't murder her, then Avery must be guilty. That just screams that he has predetermined Avery's guilt and is more concerned with a conviction than the truth.
- Who was the guy in court that questioned the defense's position of police corruption?
He made it sound like a threat and no one seemed phased?dorkKn1ght
- Who was the guy in court that questioned the defense's position of police corruption?
- georgesIII0
I watched it and say this avery dude is totally guilty,
just look at all the effort and man power his state spent on prosecuting him, you don't do that if the guy is innocent!!!you can't honestly tell me all these people are wrong, even his lawyer did a good job proving his culpability and the netflix people are just using biased footage
his own nephew spoke so eloquently about his deeds and wasn't coerced by the fabulous police force
also thank god for the local police inspecting repeatdly his trailer or we would have never found the key with his blooDna on it
people saying he's not guilty are just butthurt conspiracy theorists,
after all there is NO WAY people could keep a secret this big concealed after all these years- Guilty or not, I don't think that was the intention of the film.
It seemed to me that it illuminates the gross corruption employed by the people we "trust"dorkKn1ght - I detect sarcasm in george's post?hotroddy
- I agree the cops aren't trustworthyhotroddy
- the sarcasm is strong in this post - I like.fadein11
- Guilty or not, I don't think that was the intention of the film.
- zenmasterfoo0
- thank god Milwakee meg from reddit is on the case_niko
- so where was the hair follicles that they cut from her hair? if they bleached the area to destroy her dna from the pools of blood, how did Avery's dna show up?_niko
- maybe he was in the garage afterwards. that would explain dan that showed up after bleaching. hair burns quickly in a fire btw.zenmasterfoo
- DNA not danzenmasterfoo
- nb1
Or how about near the end of the series, during Brendan's trial, when the investigator Michael O'Kelly (that Brendan's lawyer hired!) reads back that email he sent. The email is something about how the Averys and Dasseys are a bad family and how they have an opportunity to get rid of their family, and just end them.
Or there is a part where the current, active sheriff Kenneth Peterson says on-camera that it "if we wanted to kill Avery it would be easier to kill him rather than frame him." How is this guy still employed in law enforcement after making a comment like that?
The documentary contains so many clips of people saying shit that if you saw it in a movie you would shut the movie off because it would seem so unrealistic.
- yeah pretty disturbing really._niko
- those 2 lawyers Avery had were way too smart for these hick fucks and yet the system completely failed Avery and his nephew in the endRamanisky2
- sometimes it backfires, they get defensive and the town-folk stick together against the city-slicker outsiders._niko
- _niko1
The thing that struck me the most about this series is how the system is set up to prey on vulnerable people like the Averys.
They are fodder for the justice system, they feed the church and the military, plebs that don't know any better but are the most crucial part in holding up the deck of cards that what I want to say is American society but really society anywhere.
Instead of really helping these people through education, social programs and other resources, help them get a leg up, they are left to falter, which not only suits the system just fine but in fact allows it to thrive.
I guess you can argue that it's all about survival of the fittest and the cream will rise to the top and the rest will be left to stew in the cesspool, that these people have options available to them but don't make an effort to better themselves, but when you see a documentary like this and how the system is set up to keep them down, it gives you an overwhelming sense of hopelessness.
- totally agreefadein11
- watching his mom & dad is actually heartbreaking they're so dedicated and never gave up after all those years.
from the courts to the jail visits. sad.Ramanisky2 - yeah man I feel for his parentsernexbcn
- nb0
I've often wondered about the prejudice which benefits police officers. Many times in the doc (and in other cases I've followed) people say things like, "These are police officers, they are officers of the law, there we can trust them to tell the truth."
It's always seems weird to me. I mean, if there were no cases on record of police interference or corruption, then I could agree with this. But why are we still accepting this archaic idea that when a cop says something they are probably telling the truth? We can presume that most cops are good people (as most people are good people) and there a few are bad apples in law enforcement.
Cops are human. They make mistakes and break laws. They cover things up. They are human. I understand that their word has to be taken as truth in minor cases (traffic court, etc) but in something like this I don't get it.
Two suspects have their lives on the line, and there is some circumstantial evidence that the police and prosecutorial team are either lying or, at the very least, are breaking protocol and even breaking the law. Yet, you still hear many people say things like, "well, they are the police, so you'd better be careful about suggesting they did something wrong."
The cops and investigators in this case clearly broke rules and covered their tracks. There is paperwork showing that they are not doing their jobs properly and acting in their own self-interest. There is video and testimony where they circumvent laws and the deny constitutional rights to suspects.
But still, there is a prosecutor in front of a jury saying these same cops and investigators are beyond accusation.
- been having the same thoughts myself. My wife and I have been watching this (only 5 episodes in as yet) and it's absolutely maddening to see how quickly andexador1
- easily it is for the establishment to frame them. I'm very curious to see if this massive amount of publicity can change things for Avery.exador1
- Quite simply, it's one thing to hoodwink or hushup locally, but this has gone world-wide now. EVERYONE knows.
Hoping all this attention helps the guys..exador1 - Without new evidence, all the public opinion in America probably won't help.nb
- The police also committed perjury on the stand!instrmntl
- it worked for the Memphis 3 ... i think it will work the same for Avery and his nephewRamanisky2
- nb1
It's crazy when you realize that Brendan's entire case (and his life) would be completely different if he had just known one thing: You don't need to talk to the police.
If he had just sat silently, asking for a lawyer to be present, he would be free today. They got a confession from him before charging him. Unbelievable.
Do we really expect a 16 year old kid to understand his legal rights? Of course not. But all he needed to know is:
a) no one is allowed to make you talk and
b) if they do charge you, you should talk to no one except your lawyer.
- important lesson to everyone. If ever interrogated shut the fuck up and call your lawyer._niko
- yep - the treatment of him was most sickening. A vulnerable, low IQ 16 year old. And if Avery had a history of abusing him and controlling him as certain sitesfadein11
- claim why did he get a life sentence - surely if what they claim happened he was coerced/bullied into being involved. And don't get me started on that scumbagfadein11
- who virtually forced him to do those detailed drawings scaring him by saying the police will talk to his mother 1st as they wanted a recorded prison phonecallfadein11
- confession. Regardless of what really happened the prosecution and law enforcement side were pure scumbags,fadein11
- unless the kid was pulling an Edward Norton from Primal Fear it is impossible for me to understand how all these assholes involved in putting him behind bars ..Ramanisky2
- .. didn't realize how compromised Brendan was with his intelligence and his social skills.Ramanisky2
- _niko1
the whole time they were interrogating Brendan, I was praying that Saul would bust into the room lol
- _niko0
What was also extremely disturbing for me was the judge's statement at the sentencing hearing, saying how he has never had such an evil man in his courtroom and that his crimes have been getting worse and worse over the years implying that he also thinks he is guilty of the 1985 rape even though it was overturned on dna evidence. I thought judges were supposed to be impartial?
Them this same shithead judge presides over his appeal hearings? How can Avery get any justice?
- Oh I thought the same about that cunty judge ... Impartiality right out the fucking window.Ramanisky2
- SteveJobs0
That guy crying over 'the blue ribbon'... Just wow...
- I know - was totally bizarre.fadein11
- cringeworthyRamanisky2
- "Sorry, I'm just crying about that blue ribbon again." WHAAAA?nb
- pure theatreernexbcn
- _niko0
hhmm, 2 of the jurors had a huge conflict of interest
"After the trial, I found out...[one juror] was the father of a Manitowoc County Sheriff's deputy," the dismissed juror, Richard Mahler, says. "Another juror, his wife works for the Manitowoc County Clerk's Office."
- pardon my limited law knowledge but can't the defense 'veto' jurors for such reasons? maybe only in higher courts? i'm sure i've heard of this before.SteveJobs
- yeah you would think so, maybe they lied or weren't investigated thoroughly?_niko
- that's the other thing that bugged me it's such a small town, everyone is interconnected in some way, it's impossible to get 12 impartial jurors there._niko
- don't know if it's a failing of the defence to not ask for the trial to be elswhere or if the judge made the final call_niko