IPR quandry
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- 83 Responses
- JackRyan0
I agree with detritus...I mean shit, who would ever even bring it up? That's what you talk about after you leave the meeting in your car, "OMG, did you like see those fake Panton chairs!? I know right!?"
- JSK0
The difference is that the client is in the field of producing chairs.
I guess people just don't get the value of design or themselves in design profession yet complain about crowd sourcing or rip off of someone else's design.
- Dodecahedron0
well i'd bring it up if I was into selling these things and happened to be looking into doing business with someone. I wouldn't be a tight ass dick about it though, I'd mention it in passing and talk casually about the topic and my other business ventures... it would be highly impressive rather than pompous.
- detritus0
Full Disclosure - JSK once designed a chair.
- http://www.housebibl…detritus
- I studied ID and did chair / furniture design.JSK
- he did design a chair, it was a lounge; solid, hollow, & tapering if i remember correctlyregiste
- JSK0
"he discovered we had one of these, and was not happy."
I dont he said the client was pompous or anything. Again, the client's main business is to produce these chairs.
- "At one point he wanted no connection between our two business for our purchase choice."Dodecahedron
- Why would do you do business with someone who is taking your livelihood away from you?JSK
- And trust a design firm buying fake stuff?JSK
- nobody is taking his lively hood away from him ffsDodecahedron
- When someone buys a fake one, its a loss for someone buying a real one.JSK
- no its not, they probably wouldn't have bought a 1500$ version to begin with. they would have found another 50$ one.Dodecahedron
- its not the buyers who would be at fault anyway, its the manufacturers and only in an indirect wayDodecahedron
- detritus0
I think I'd like to believe I'd be bemused if I were in your client's position. Like Dodecahedron says.. I'd mention it, but I doubt I'd get all flustered.
Besides, this guy's the middle-man, right? On license making other people's designs? All he sees he's losing is $$, not love respect or anything a designer has right to feel.
- registe0
I think the real crime here is
http://www.vernerpanton.com/flash splash → tiny popup → flash splash → sad excuse for a site
- jonny_quest_lives0
Hmm. Tough call... if the designer is still alive I would have a problem buying a replica chair. I love the Eames Fiberglass shell chairs. I wish Herman Miller still made them. Or rather still made them correctly...The problem with Herman Miller's Eames licensed chairs is they've deviated so far from Charles and Ray Eames original product specifications they have the look and feel of knock offs.
http://modernica.net/fiberglass-…
http://store.hermanmiller.com/st…
- JSK0
The Eames estate licensed two version to each companies.
- JSK0
BTW Modernica's version is not true to original either.
I took my original Eames to a store to compare and they were not to same spec. They claim that they are using the original mold that Eames used to produce the original set but the design has deviated regardless.
- Modern molded HM chairs are a lot different but not noticeable unless you place it side by side.JSK
- dibec0
- Need a Chair? Go to Step1.
Step 1.
- Have a lot of money to buy a chair. Go to Step 2
- Have some money, don't care from who, what, where, just want a chair. Go to Step 3.Step 2.
- Buy the most expensive chair you can. Name is very important, spend as much as you can. These two factors are very important. Go Buy. Go Buy. Go Buy!Step 3.
- Do you your research. Find a chair that suites your needs, liking and budget. Buy your chair and be happy.
- JSK0
- Need a Design? Go to Step1.
Step 1.
- Have a lot of money to buy a design. Go to Step 2
- Have some money, don't care from who, what, where, just want a design. Go to Step 3.
Step 2.
- Buy the most expensive design you can. Name is very important, spend as much as you can. These two factors are very important. Go Buy. Go Buy. Go Buy!
Step 3.
- Do you your research. Find a design that suites your needs, liking and budget. Buy your design and be happy.
- dibec0
Look at that. We have a recipe for shopping.
- dibec0
Crucify me. I have a Vincent van Gogh "The Starry Night" reprint. I could not afford the original.
- registe0
sadly, Verner Panton died 13 years ago, yesterday. :( R.I.P.
- registe0
http://www.google.com/patents?id…
and
Word Mark PANTON CHAIR
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 020. US 002 013 022 025 032 050. G & S: Chairs
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 79022628
Filing Date March 6, 2006
Current Filing Basis 66A
Original Filing Basis 66A
International Registration Number 0881727
Owner (APPLICANT) Marianne Panton UNKNOWN Lindenweg 5 CH-4052 Basel SWITZERLAND
Priority Date September 6, 2005
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date March 1, 2007
- registe0
what's the original price & how many colors was it offered in? was it intended to be a limited run?
- Miesfan0
Devotees of midcentury modernist furniture who want to furnish their homes with affordable versions of the period's signature pieces, like Mies van der Rohe's Barcelona chair, may soon be out of luck.In a decision that could reduce the availability of replicas of classic modern furniture, the United States Patent and Trademark Office last week granted trademark protection to the furniture company Knoll for four famous designs in Mies van der Rohe's Barcelona collection — the chair and a stool, couch and table — as well as his flat-bar Brno chair.
Knoll, a Greenville, Pa., company, has been the licensed manufacturer of the Barcelona chair since 1948. A Knoll spokesman, David Bright, said the decision allowed the company to take action against retailers who sell knockoffs and "gives a green light to U.S. customs to stop unauthorized products from reaching this country."
Knoll, which makes 18 Mies reproductions, has held a trademark on the Barcelona name since 1968. (Knoll reproductions have Mies's signature stamped into the frame.) The new registration extends trademark protection to the actual design of the five products. Mr. Bright said the company filed for protection to stem inexpensive knockoffs. Trademark protection, Mr. Bright added, will help maintain the authenticity of the original 1929 design. He declined to provide sales figures for the Barcelona series but said it is a "perennial favorite." The decision could curb sales of copycat versions by retailers like Design Within Reach, whose customers appreciate the period's design masters but do not want to pay for authentic reproductions.
At the same time, the attempt to restrict replicas may encourage manufacturers to be inventive. "They will make enough changes to ensure the products are legal," said Lee Mindel, an architect at Shelton, Mindel & Associates in New York. "They will morph into other things, like watches on Canal Street."
High-end furniture makers often deploy trademark protection to safeguard their classic designs. Last year Herman Miller, the Zeeland, Mich., manufacturer, received a trademark registration similar to Knoll's for the amoeba-shaped Noguchi coffee table and the Eames lounge chair and ottoman.
Barcelona knockoffs are sold under different names with slightly altered styling. C.I.T.E., for example, a shop in SoHo, offers a $1,000 "designer-inspired" chair based on the original; Design Within Reach sells its Barcelona-style chair ("made to precise specifications of the original design," according to the store's Web site) for $1,995. Knoll's licensed reproduction costs $4,809.
Modernist knockoffs are typically made in countries like Vietnam, China and Italy. Mike Walsh, a trademark lawyer at Choate, Hall & Stewart in Boston, said Knoll's new trademark registration would allow customs officials to "seize the goods at the point of entry." The registration also lets rivals know that Knoll has legal authority to seek injunctions against sellers. "They are rattling the cage," Mr. Walsh said.
The new trademark protection clearly discourages the sale of unlicensed pieces called Barcelonas. But can it stop a retailer from selling an unauthorized replica with a different name? Design Within Reach, for example, calls its replica the Pavilion chair, a sly reference to the 1929 Barcelona Exposition, where Mies introduced his collection at the German Pavilion.
To win a judgment, Knoll's lawyers would have to convince a jury that there is a "likelihood of confusion" in the mind of the consumer, Mr. Walsh said. And to the undiscerning eye, often the cheap reproductions are quite similar to the originals, varying only in small changes of width or height, or the thickness of the frame. (For its Barcelona chair Knoll uses hand-welted leather panels, while C.I.T.E.'s replicas are machine-stitched.)
David Harrison, a trademark lawyer at Rosen & Livingston in New York who represents C.I.T.E., argues that after 75 years the design for the Barcelona chair is in the public domain. Knoll can do little more than "make a lot of noise," he said.
C.I.T.E.'s founder and director, P. J. Casey, said she would keep selling her version. "It's part of our brand and our identity," she said.
Some design professionals buy authentic reproductions only. Such pieces "honor and respect what the designer has done," Mr. Mindel said.
But James Biber, an architect at the firm Pentagram, sympathizes with consumers. Knockoffs, if done faithfully, ensure that objects are available to a wider range of people and "spread awareness of good design," he said. "Consumers usually can't tell the difference unless they turn it over and look at the label."