Tesla Model S...
- Started
- Last post
- 76 Responses
- janne760
as i posted in a note above:
i think even not sustainable living people may buy this to SAVE a LOT of taxes in a LOT of countries!aka
the best way to make people move over to the green way of living is playing with their instinctive greed. Make it financially very attractive to do so.
- janne760
on another note:
these cars are far from green if the electricity has not been generated in a green way.
and i heard some bad stories about the lifespan of accu's and what happens to the seriously hazardous components after their lifetime.there's still a lot of things to do before it becomes perfect..
- agreed. and refinement only happens when objects are put to use... so write the check!ItTango
- invo0
That's just it. When the gouvernment around the world (especially in my home contry) realises that electric cars are about to be common they will start raising taxes on these cars too. For all the reasons you (janne76) mentioned.
In Norway they did just that a couple of days ago for bio diesel...The savings available for beeing green will only be temporary..
- true. the taxes has to get paid, in one of an other way.akrokdesign
- akrokdesign0
hey janne, it's not perfect. we know that.
best thing is not to buy any car.
but that is a bit harder to sell.- only a matter of time. batteries will arrive with 100 times more endurance and power generation will improve as well.janne76
- agree. smaller, lighter. etc.akrokdesign
- yup.janne76
- ItTango0
@akro - i would love to be car-less, it's simply not practical presently. For me, it would require a complete overhaul of the public transit system in Chicago. That ain't on the foreseeable horizon. And this city is a sprawling place. Most people live no where near their jobs.
square miles + distance to work + poor transit sys + kids + gear = car... unfortunately.
- i understand. same thing in l.a.akrokdesign
- it's bad urban planning, i guess.akrokdesign
- It all goes back to the 1939 Futurama: http://www.youtube.c…
ribit
- janne760
invo,
in Holland they are soon starting to gradually introduce pay per mile (per kilometer).so in the end, when the system is integrated and has ended it's gradual transformation you will no longer pay tax for the purchase of any car and no longer pay regular monthly tax for the ownership and use of the car.
thus, buying and owning a car will cost you nothing, driving it will.
which is a good thing, as it will make you more aware of your use (btw. in rush hour the price per kilometer will be higher, also in denser area's it will be more expensive per kilometer).people will have to be inventive themselves how to be more economical yet do not have to pay a dime if they leave their car standing still for a while.
i think that is the way to go.
the price balance will in the end more or less be the same for taxes raised by the govt.
and anything they earn more will be invested in public transport and such.
- We got both! Hugh first time buy tax + very expensive petrol (2€ per litre)invo
- lowimpakt0
why is an overhaul of the public transport system to imagine?
is it to simple to think in terms of elitist objects of design rather than collective action that actually has a positive environmental, social and economic impact?
if we're talking about sustainability, designing aspirational cars for an elite few is worse than rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
- janne760
i forgot to add, another parameter that sets your price per km is the type of car you drive. the cleaner the car, the less you pay per kilometer.
- janne760
"if we're talking about sustainability, designing aspirational cars for an elite few is worse than rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic."
Lowimpakt, i can not entirely follow you there?
Are you saying expensive well designed cars are bad?
I think it is great. Expensive means a lot of innovation and setting the tone for future production and design of cheaper electric cars.
what not too many people know is that out of the raw and dirty Formula 1 sport, a lot of technology has been used in the real world to make cars a lot more efficient and thus cleaner!
but maybe i am missing the point.
i was trying to say that new technologies always kick off on some "elite" level.
- eating_tv0
I'd rather go for the small train-like car system. I think there's this test set-up in an American city somewhere? A personal mass-transit system. Individual cars on rails. That sounds ideal. No accidents, privacy and door-to-door transit.
- ItTango0
@lowimpakt... I didn't say it was difficult to imagine, it's just not where this city is headed right now. Chicago has huge infrastructure challenges, money is in short supply, president of the public school system just assassinated, and the public transit system has become nothing more than a "cost center" on the balance sheet.
It will be a while before Chicago gets around to a serious redesign on that.
- assassinated? You mean suicide because he felt disgraced for the chicago school system. Don't shift the blame.FredMcWoozy
- Oh please! You're the only one who believes that BS.ItTango
- FredMcWoozy0
The town I grew up in California was the had the most electric cars per capita in the whole country. The city had a whole fleet of electric vehicles and guess what GM did after the lease was up with the city?
Guess what they did to 300 electric vehicles?
They smashed them because of the costs to charge the vehicles. $3.82 a mile is what it costs Sacramento, not sure what the cost was in my home town.
http://www.evnut.com/fuel_cell.h…
° In 2008, a "green" hydrogen station opened in Sacramento. The station has extensive solar panels (80 KW), and uses the produced electricity to perform electrolysis, and compresses the hydrogen up to the 5000 psi needed by the hydrogen cars. It is energy neutral on the grid (net zero grid use). It powers hydrogen cars from sunlight, right? Sounds COOL! It's a joint venture between the City of Sacramento, BP, US Department of Energy, and Ford Motor Company.
Now the details: The station cost $3.2 million, including the $1.7 million in solar panels. It produces 12kg of hydrogen per day (about the energy equivalient of 12 gallons of gasoline). It will be used by the city of Sacramento to power their 7 hydrogen cars each being driven 12,000 miles/year.
If you figure the cost of the money at 5%, assume that the life of the facility is 20 years, and that there will be no maintenance or human involvement in 20 years (unlikely), the cost of each fillup (to go 230 miles) calculates to $879. Cost per mile: $3.82.
A 20 mpg gas car costs about 20 cents per mile, and an efficient electric car costs 3 cents per mile.
If the output of the solar array on this station was instead used to feed battery electric cars or plug-in hybrids, then the facility could support 54 electric cars, instead of 7 hydrogen cars, all being driven 230 miles per week. (The 80 KW solar array on the station will produce about 440 KWH per day, and a decent electric car or plug-in hybrid gets about 4 miles per KWH).
- $3.82 per mile for each electric vehicle!FredMcWoozy
- Anyone seen a FACT around here?ItTango
- fact is hydrogen is not the way to go forward.janne76
- more bullshit!!!utopian
- FredMcWoozy can not even afford car, he lives at home with mommy.utopian
- And he's a Republican!ETM
- badly managed case study does not equal reality mcwoozylambsy
- janne760
yes, but scrap that whole hydrogen idea. it is just a way to move mobility further from the source of power. it is too indirect. hydrogen will die soon enough. in a few years noone will ever mention it again.
the only way in terms of what lies in reach and will improve fairly rapidly is electric powered mobility.
(hydrogen needs to be produced, transported and used by a complex system that is too expensive and has quite some safety issues)
- ItTango0
The electric cars where actually shredded so that none of the technology would be available to the public. The leases on those vehicles were suddenly terminated after senate hearings during which every politician connected to the fossil fuel industry basically shut down those who were hoping to speak on behalf of the electric car industry.
This was during the time that GM was looking to purchase Hummer, and Toyota was about to introduce the Land Cruiser. It was the beginning of the SUV craze.
The Cliffsnotes you're reading don't tell the whole story...
- version30
teslas are in LA like civics, i'm sure that model s will hit the street no problem
- ItTango0
More, uh... factual data here:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whok…
- janne760
yeah, but GM / Hummer are going down ANYway.
They should have known it was only a matter of time. Ignorant idiots.
- ukit0
This is very exciting. Who thought a few years ago that all 100% electric, commercially viable cars would be here so soon?
- ribit0
A project by researchers at Art Center College of Design...
Futurama 2.0 : Mobilizing America's Transportation Revolution (PDF)
http://www.ongoingtransportation…- Damn! Now I have to take my laptop into the bathroom.ItTango