Human Origins Rethink ?
- Started
- Last post
- 72 Responses
- mikotondria30
I am satisfied that my initial post, designed to inflame an angry religious discussion between people of differing 'faiths', and those willing to apply the same rational mind to this discussion as they are any other.
Hopefully some people somewhat unfamiliar with this topic, and who consider themselves 'moderate' will drift into the thread and be swayed into rational non-belief by the appallingly poor and illogical 'arguments' of 'the faithful', and we can become just the tiniest bit closer to a world free of their and others'* pernicious little subservient death-cults.* Discipler: "Khurram is a muslim..."
- Fuck you, i'm an absurdist!Khurram
- http://en.wikipedia.…Khurram
- I utterly retract my inflammatory statement and apologise, sir - absurdism is a wonderful ism, and I admire you for it.mikotondria3
- i accept your apology. i have no stomach for religious dogma of any kind, particularly the one i was born intoKhurram
- DrBombay0
Religion will never make any sense to me. I realize it makes people feel at peace with a crazy seeming world, but it is all crap.
- ...uh I can think of a number of incidents where peace seems have been wildly disrupted by it...mikotondria3
- Yeah that's people mangling religion. Not the other way around.gramme
- At least in the case of Christianity. Islam on the other is actually a violent religion.gramme
- (If one is to follow the commands of their scripture and the bloody example set by Mohammed).gramme
- you have not fucking idea what you are talking about gramme.Khurram
- If you say so, bud. BTW it's been well-documented that Mohammed was a murderer and a thief.gramme
- And what is Jihad, if not holy war against unbelievers? Isn't Jihad straight from the Q'uran?gramme
- A thief?? a murdered?? well documented?? Again, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.Khurram
- gramme0
The two central tenets of atheism (someone else said this, I can't take credit for it):
1. God doesn't exist.
2. I hate him.- We have no 'tenets'...
Conceded that is funny, tho :)mikotondria3 - I don't hate unicorns either.Mimio
- Tenets don't have to be typeset in two columns and leather-bound with foil-stamped cover in order to be tenets. :)gramme
- We don't have meetings. We would have to be organized to have tenets.DrBombay
- We have no 'tenets'...
- designbot0
tenet of evolution:
You are dumb and ugly....but not as dumb and ugly as your ancestors.
- gramme0
Hey miko, I consider you to be a friend, at least as much of a friend as one can have in a virtual forum such as this. So I'll ask without malicious intent, what do you see as illogical about anything I've ever said in these discussions?
Also: death cult? Really? Do I strike you as the sort of person who would subscribe to a "death cult"?
There's absolutely no reason why science and religion can't co-exist peacefully without canceling one another out. If we can get past the fact that everyone applies a bias of some sort to objective or "objective" evidence, and that personal belief and scientific inquiry can never be perfectly divorced from one another—because it's inscribed on our very nature to believe in something, be it ourselves, God, or a flying spaghetti monster—then we can establish mutual respect for one another.
By mutual respect I don't mean perfect agreement. It's quite possible to respect someone and yet believe they're deeply mistaken about things. We don't need to squash those who disagree with us into oblivion in order to coexist. This would create a new kind of totalitarian morality, the very thing you rail against.
- I think he just likes to hear himself talk (or type) as his whole statement above is simply inflammatory.designbot
- DrBombay0
- haha sorry I heard someone pronounce Muslim as Muslin earlier.DrBombay
- Isn't muslin a textile?gramme
- Yep and also an ignorant rednecky way of mispronouncing Muslim.DrBombay
- I hate them nucular Muslins!gramme
- hahahaMimio
- There used to be this music project band called Muslimgauze.
http://en.wikipedia.…Mimio
- ukit0
Listening to how reasonable someone like gramme is, I don't know why Discovery Institute types feel the need to invent their own little pseudo-religion to try to retrofit modern science to a 2,000 year old faith. It's as weird and goofy as Joseph Smith reading his golden plates and discovering that Jesus will return in Missouri.
- Yep, if there's any beauty in religion it's not found through legalism.Mimio
- baseline_shift0
i tend to agree with gramme here.
For me, its a concept best described by the ancient greeks as 'Logos vs Mythos'. Logos being science and reason and Mythos being mythology and the spiritual.
Before Galileo, there was a sharp divide between religious and scientific lines of thinking. What he did was help us realize our place in the universe, and begin trying to explain our place in the universe. Then, Darwin further blended these lines by offering scientific theories as to the origins of life on the planet.
That being said, the discoveries made by these scientists and their predecessors have helped mold our understanding of our universe and the life in it, but they also began to give gravity to the idea of science REPLACING religion (or spirituality. Read logos replacing ethos.)
Now, the greeks had a much more basic understanding of our natural world, but they believed that both had an equally important part of the human experience on our planet. Logos for fueling our rational, scientific, logical brain. This is obviously important for architecture, engineering, medicine, etc. But, Mythos had an equal spot at their table, because Logos had no business trying to explain love, or joy, or helping you get over the death of a loved one.
In out increasingly scientifically aware existence, its easier to explain more through science. And while this has many benefits, it doesnt necessarily improve our mortal human experience. Even though science can explain more, doesnt mean it should stretch to explain EVERYTHING. Mythos should have an equal spot at the table. IMHO
- <gramme
- and im not really that 'religious'. I just dont think science can explain everything. Pain and beauty exist independent of logic.baseline_shift
- independent of logic.baseline_shift
- +1designbot
- That's all well and good but religion breaks this rule all the time by trying to explain the natural world.Mimio
- In fact that's really the initial role of faith and religion.Mimio
- i wouldnt necessarily call organized religion as we know it Mythos. And its all about balance. you need BOTHbaseline_shift
- ukit0
It should be pointed out that Galileo was tried and convicted for heresy. His books were banned by the Catholic Church, and the Pope personally ordered that he be locked him up and never leave his home.
All of this was for his crazy idea that the Earth rotated around the Sun.
- right, thats why Logos and Mythos BOTH should have seats on the table. Just Mythos is as bad as just Logos.baseline_shift
- i would say that the Pope banning condoms in africa is another terrible example of Mythos over Logosbaseline_shift
- Yep. Besides, there's no biblical reason for banning birth control, so long as a life is not being taken.gramme
- fertlized egg = life. Killing sperm isn't killing life anymore than clipping one's toenails.gramme
- unless you happen to be a sperm, then in which case I guess you are their god and can do things divinely to them by whim.DrBombay
- on whim.DrBombay
- 7point340
has anyone mentioned whether or not they'd like to "hit" this ape girl yet?
allow me to toss my chip in the pile.
since megan fox i've found i have a insatiable attraction to toe thumbs
- GeorgesII0
interresting
-
Her arrival was announced with unrestrained razzmatazz. She was the "eighth wonder of the world", "our Mona Lisa" and an evolutionary "Rosetta Stone", according to the researchers who unveiled her.
"Our analysis and results have convinced us that Ida was not an ancestor of monkeys, apes, or humans, and if anything has more relevance for our understanding of lemur and loris origins," said Erik Seiffert, a fossil hunter at Stony Brook University in New York who led the Nature study.
..............http://www.guardia...
-