Human Origins Rethink ?
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- teleos0
Khurram: We all fit the evidence to our worldviews.
It looks like a biped was before quadrupeds in the narrative of human "evolution". So, it's a warranted conclusion that de-volution in the sense that started out "higher evolved" and perhaps took a more degenerative route for a while. That is all I am saying. Food for thought.
And the thinking regarding exceptionalism is that the claim materialistis often make is that humans emerged from great apes and this find suggests it was not that way.
- ok so you are taking liberty with semantics. Bipeds were BEFORE quadrupeds? How so?Khurram
- this fossil had features of BOTH a biped AND a quadruped. Strongly suggesting a middle species.Khurram
- It was found in strata dating WELL before the australopithecines. This is the issue.teleos
- i dont understand. How does it prove that bipeds didn't come from quadripeds?Khurram
- because this find shows that a strikingly human-like biped was earlier in the "lineage".teleos
- so what if it was "earlier"?? are there NO QUADRIPEDS before it??? Did "lemurs" come after? lolKhurram
- your conjectures are waaay off.Khurram
- i'm simply point out that the earliest find to date, in alleged human evolution, is strikingly humanoid and biped.teleos
- "pointing out"teleos
- which is nothing like the claims you were makingKhurram
- teleos0
Khurram, the earliest cells found looked like this:
Complexity from the very beginning.
- yes. quite beautiful. Check this programme out http://www.bbc.co.uk…Khurram
- great explanation of the spontaenous genesis of the cellKhurram
- 2nd part in the series is the bestKhurram
- the abrupt appearance of the cell with all of it's elegant complexity and code. Design.teleos
- not necessarily. It wasn't "abrupt". The cell came from a complex interaction of amino acidsKhurram
- only ONE cell figured out replication. Therefore ALL LIFE came from ONE cell, Amazing.Khurram
- The aliens built us...IRNlun6
- khurram there is no evidence for that claim. Early eukaryotic and prokaryotic cells have all the information, code and machinery.teleos
- the information was there from the start. Darwinists just have assumptions touted as fact. It's what they do.teleos
- a seeded earth, an "uber cell" if you will, is much more in line with the evidence.teleos
- sorry, you're wrong on that account. I'll watch that programme again just quickly to show you.Khurram
- fuck, its no longer on line. Well it pretty much explained everythign about the early cellKhurram
- evolution of the nucleus, of rbna, dna etc... how amino acids naturally come together in such structures etc.Khurram
- you shud read wider than your creationist websites.Khurram
- here, donload this if you get a chance
http://www.google.co…Khurram - assumptions without empirical evidence. Storytelling.teleos
- something u know all about eh? teeheeKhurram
- utopian0
I am sure that this topic is not going over well with the radical religious right. Particularly the born again Republican types.
- teleos0
On the BBC David Attenborough thing:
http://www.uncommondescent.com/i…
http://science-and-values.blogsp…
- teleos0
Gotta get back to work. Good discussion. Words about the cell to think about:
"information processing"
"transcription"
"transport shuttle"
"code"
- Khurram0
part of the spontaneous formation of cells:
(wikipedia)
In the 1950s and 1960s, Sidney W. Fox studied the spontaneous formation of peptide structures under conditions that might plausibly have existed early in Earth's history. He demonstrated that amino acids could spontaneously form small peptides. These amino acids and small peptides could be encouraged to form closed spherical membranes, called protenoid microspheres, which show many of the basic characteristics of 'life'.[34]
- Khurram0
While features of self-organization and self-replication are often considered the hallmark of living systems, there are many instances of abiotic molecules exhibiting such characteristics under proper conditions. For example Martin and Russel show that physical compartmentation by cell membranes from the environment and self-organization of self-contained redox reactions are the most conserved attributes of living things, and they argue therefore that inorganic matter with such attributes would be life's most likely last common ancestor.[45]
Virus self-assembly within host cells has implications for the study of the origin of life,[46] as it lends further credence to the hypothesis that life could have started as self-assembling organic molecules.[47] [48]
- Khurram0
bit more
Relatively short RNA molecules which can duplicate others have been artificially produced in the lab.[50] Such replicase RNA, which functions as both code and catalyst provides a template upon which copying can occur. Jack Szostak has shown that certain catalytic RNAs can, indeed, join smaller RNA sequences together, creating the potential, in the right conditions for self-replication. If these were present, Darwinian selection would favour the proliferation of such self-catalysing structures, to which further functionalities could be added.[51] Lincoln and Joyce identified an RNA enzyme capable of self sustained replication.[52]
- DrBombay0
I think your god would be pretty pissed that you are trying to look behind the curtain, Teleos.
- designbot0
So they find a human like fossil skeleton that they claim is around 1.2 million years older than the "missing link" Lucy which shows the same advanced characteristics.
haha! science = fail.
- I don't understand you...DrBombay
- I just think it's ironic that with the faith some folks put in science how it can change over night like this.designbot
- I have a few friends that still look like apes ffs. It is obvious we evolved from a hairier beast.DrBombay
- haha, hey I found his picture:
http://news.national…designbot - That looks like my friend Burly Tony!DrBombay
- loldesignbot
- gramme0
I haven't weighed in yet because I see nothing here that is mutually exclusive with my faith. I remain ambivalent about whether the earth was created in six literal days, or six billion years (or whatever). I figure that if God is capable of creating worlds ex nihilo, he can arrange his schedule however he wants and it need not affect us latter-day humans very much.
The one exception I take to these findings is not new at all, and that's the notion that this Ardi skeleton represents a clear precursor to humans. I still think it's an enormous leap to say "OK, we found all these primates with varying levels of advancement, and based on what we've observed about modern-day animals and educated guesses about archaeological finds, that means we've found grandma and/or grandpa."
I have no reason to believe there's anything falsified about these remains, I just think the conclusions paleontologists arrive at regarding the connection between us and various hominids is an unwarranted leap. Where science stops, faith makes connections, and faith in something is unavoidable.
- well yes, it is "leaps" based on the assumption that evolution is true. Teleos is also making leaps when heKhurram
- but such doubt extended to the rest of the good book must cause you painstrooperbill
- says this proves "devolution" happened and we don't come from lemurs. Where is he getting THAT from? Nowhere.Khurram
- He is a lemur.DrBombay
- I agree, at the end of the day....evolution or not we are still faced with the big God question.designbot
- And neither side is mutually exclusive.designbot
- Well then, god supposedly created man in his own image. A fucking ape.DrBombay
- A filthy fucking ape.DrBombay
- The last supper image looks like planet of the apes.DrBombay
- Changes a lot actually.DrBombay
- So because you believe man evolved from an ape like ancestor, you cannot believe in God?designbot
- I am asking you that personally.designbot
- God is an ape then, isn't he? We were created in his image, no?DrBombay
- Obviously you don't believe what's written in the Bible, so why do you use it to try and prove your point?designbot
- Take the Bible out of the equation and answer my question.designbot
- How can I take the bible out of a God discussion?DrBombay
- If there is a God, is he not bigger than the book written about him?designbot
- Then why read it, quote it, preach it etc? You don't even believe that so stop it.DrBombay
- No I believe that. You are evading the question. My point is that you can come to knowledge of God without the Bible.designbot
- Was man created in God's image according to the bible?DrBombay
- Because God is much bigger than a book.designbot
- I believe that man came from apes and find it at odds with the christian god story.DrBombay
- Why do you reply to my questions with more questions? You can't even answer my simple question.designbot
- What makes you think god is bigger than a book, you learned about him from that book.DrBombay
- So does that completely exclude God for you?designbot
- I came to know God outside of the Bible. I believe it is His word though, yes.designbot
- So why does your belief in god perfectly jive with the teachings in the bible if you know him some other way.DrBombay
- It's kinda crap, db. Get it?DrBombay
- Everyone says they "have a personal relationship with god". Which of the 100 different flavors of christianity?DrBombay
- You are deafening your own ears by assuming too many things Dr.B. If God exists and is the creator of the universe why are all things not possible?designbot
- are all things not possible?designbot
- Rides magical unicorn out of this note section... it is retarded.DrBombay
- I think you know that truth exists outside of your tiny bubble. You just choose to keep the blindfold on.designbot
- My family is Jewish, are they blind?DrBombay
- Seems to me you are the one in a bubble. The Christian God bubble.DrBombay
- To think your religion has all the answers is a man-made bubble you are in.DrBombay
- I didn't arrive here through being raised Christian or reading the Bible though.designbot
- I was only open to the idea of Him. God has the ability to reach all those who seek Him by any means.designbot
- I know that's contrary to the Western view of the Christian God, but I speak the truth.designbot
- So does Allah and Buddha, but they are all false gods in your estimation.DrBombay
- Think of it this way....God can reach anyone if they are willing. If the Bible is His word, he will then lead them to His word.designbot
- If you were born and lived in Rammallah, do you think you would be Christian, be honest.DrBombay
- But this opportunity exists only for those who seek. It's not about being duped into a certain belief.designbot
- Seeking God is ultimately saying I am a frail human, in my weakness and limited understanding I seek the truth and trust if God exists he will meet me.designbot
- ...and trust if God exists He will meet me.designbot
- and guide me to that truth.designbot
- The same thing could be said about Allah, don't you f'ing get it?DrBombay
- But what you are not understanding is if God exists and I seek Him, will He not lead me to the truth?designbot
- Being born and raised Muslim is not seeking the truth, it's being born into a religion. Same is true with Christianity.designbot
- I refuse to type anymore in this note box. It sucks when it gets this long.DrBombay
- Agreed. At least consider my words. It boils down to, how would you know either way without at least being opendesignbot
- and seeking..there is no loss.designbot
- Same could be said about any other religion you think is full of shit.DrBombay
- Wow, 53 notes deep. What an astoundingly tiny argument.gramme
- DrBombay0
Where do you guys stand on whether we descend from Neanderthals and Cro-mags?
btw, cro-mags, great band.
- Mimio0
I've read that there's speculation that Neanderthals interbred with CroMagnon & homosapiens before being eradicated by modern humans.
- Ive heard that humans may have interbred with neanderthal as well.baseline_shift
- Mimio0
It's fun to ask Discipler what color the original human breeding pair were. He says they were medium brown not black. Even though mountains of genetic evidence prove that the darkest people on Earth (South Africans) have the most genetic diversity. Wonder why he thinks that?
- ukit0
"So the old-earth or framework-creationist could use this find to support the notion that, after the first man's rebellion against God occurred and sin was introduced into creation, some sort of de-volution took place, splitting into what are today's great apes and modern homo sapiens."
So, as revenge for eating an apple, God turned half of humanity into retarded, poo-flinging chimps?
- Fuck yeah, and he decided to make child birth more painful for women who initiating that apple treachery.Mimio
- doesnotexist0
when will the link between ape like creatures and dinosaurs be found?
- utopian0
- I hate this shit. for once I'd like to see this anti-religious discussion crap directed at any other religionzenmasterfoo
- if you're really that unbiased then hate on it all.zenmasterfoo
- agreed. there are plenty of Christians who dont see mutual exclusivity in regards to evolution.baseline_shift
- Like me, for instancegramme
- (well, up to a certain point anyway)gramme
- nah y'see you cant hate judaism cos they were persecuted. And you cant hate on islam cos they ain't white.Projectile
- baseline_shift0
How does it make you feel that there is strong evidence that Sapiens killed off our last remaining hominid ancestors.
- feel0
- this is fascinating. (the concepts anyway. her speech is tiresome.)baseline_shift