Pirate Bay Trial
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- winnie_the_shit0
Right, like KwesiJ says.
It's about control. and has fuck all to do with piracy.
- moth0
And yeah. If that ISP thing happens, you can expect an awful lot of casualties.
- ukit0
Where do you draw the line? The site itself doesn't host illegal content, just provides links to it.
- That doesn't mean it's not part of the problem.juhls
- It absolutely is - but you have to win or lose cases based on a clear interpretation of the law one way or the otherukit
- by this rational, heroin dealers should be left alone cause it's the smack that at's fault. i'm in.airey
- Better analogy - take down the owner of the park where they sell drugsukit
- crack dealers work directly, they don't tell you 'it's over there in that trash bin, some guy put it there earlier'ArsenicPants
- juhls0
Here's a good read:
http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/20…"When Pigs Fly: The Death of Oink, the Birth of Dissent, and a Brief History of Record Industry Suicide."
- airey0
it's true that the industries are behind in delivery. but the pirate bay isn't offering product, or links to product that the creators get paid for. i'm all for the wake up call that the studios need but that's not the same thing as giing away pirated material. we've all downloaded the odd cd / vid (some more than others) but if the copyright infringement wasn't supported by this kind of action then who'd bother making anything? all our friends who are involved in bands / tv / etc would either have no work or have their pay reduced to almost nothing.
the studios def need to pull their head out of their arse and delivery needs to be faster and cheaper (try living in australia where we often have to wait a year to get content unless we simply buy through amazon.com for frustration, we still can't view hulu or any other online services thanks to publishing/distribution rights) but the argument that pirate bay put across:
"They are fighting tooth-and-nail to bring back the good old days, where there was a hard division into approved senders and passive consumer receivers, where the approved senders would compete for the wallet of the consumers. Essentially, they are trying to turn the internet into a cable TV network"
is horseshit. if anyone honestly downloads copyright infringed materials and tells themself they're making a bold social statement or empowering anyone but themselves they're mentally ill.
hopefully what they have shown the studios is that there's a huge market of people wanting product immediately with decent pipeline delivery in their net connections. this will hopefully lead to competition in online vendors.
i could be wrong.
- shinpo0
The internet was created to SHARE information from one person to another (ICQ, chat clients, email, websites, news.) This was the premise of the internet to share information from one spot to another without have to bring a *physical copy* to the point of interest.
Why do artists create material? Because they want others to see, feel, hear and experience their work. Do you think an upcoming artists in his teens makes movies in his spare time for money? No.
See we as humans all have the desire to share our creations. The internet has made that possible on a large scale. Yet, some people would say what about making money? Lets look at that.
In p2p sharing who is actually losing money? Not the artist, but the producers of cd's or the record companies. Being designers we all know artists and they make their money through concerts and the selling of their own merchandise. And while they do make some profit off of the sale of cd's it is the label that takes almost all of it.
Who helps the artists with their merchandise - designers do. But you can't go to a concert while sitting on your computer at home. So no matter how many people download artists cd's or whatever off of the internet, thereby causing the recording label to lose money - the artists and designers still make money because they do so in peoples *actual presence*.
- no, the artists remain broke and having to endlessly gig far more very year, just to earn a crust.kelpie
- there's a thread of right in what you're saying there but there is an awful lot of wrong that gets brushed asidekelpie
- small labels suffer massively as a result of piracy, and they re the ones supporting new music and doing right by artistskelpie
- "piracy" is a different thing from having convenient mechanisms on hand to get and serve media onlinekelpie
- and at the end of the day 90% of people defend piracy becuase it means they don't have to pay. bottom line, no matter what arguments some smart folks can see for a sharing culturekelpie
- perfectly valid arguments some smart folk can see for a sharing culturekelpie
- uh i am in a band on small label and I can tell you that we, as the band, do lose money, not just the label.theredmasque
- our current album is on a bunch of pirate p2p places in russia for example.theredmasque
- my last album i was able to take a small vacation off of $ earned. Not this year so far because the distros are going down.theredmasque
- winnie_the_shit0
Pirates would never have paid for it. They are a non-sale. They are nobody. They may as well not exist.
Trying to fight them is like sending a message to people..
"HEY CHECK IT OUT!! YOU CAN GET OUR STUFF FREE FROM THESE GUYS.. IT'S WRONG THO.. and Uh.. VERY BAD."
As if anyone living in this media age had a moral compass or an ounce of guilt left.
- juhls0
Companies will have to let people download whatever they want for a set fee every month or year. I know some already do this.
- lukusW0
It's not wrong to get it free...
It's wrong to make a film, invest a finite amount of money / time, and expect it to earn you money forever... it's completely fcking corrupt imo.
- thank youshinpo
- IP rights on media cease after a finite number of yearsmaximillion_
- juhls0
People steal using the medium of the Internet because it's free and accessible.
- It is stealing. You wouldn't do it outside of the Internet, would you? Perhaps they are different situations, but think about itjuhls
- about it.
P.S. I steal all the time.juhls - Using the argument, I've been "stealing" music since I was a kid with my tape recorder sitting by the radio speaker.blaw
- Then moved on to mix tapes, burn ya a copy cds, etc. I spend a bunch of money on music every year. What I want is an avenue where the money goes to the artist, not some asshole at a desk.blaw
- spend a bunch of money on ...avenue where the money goes to the artists, not some asshole at a desk.blaw
- < whoops. 'notes' error committed.blaw
- I agree with you, blaw. I think some definitions have to change as well.juhls
- I mean, I see both sides. I try to buy music whenever I can, but I will download just as many files.juhls
- lukusW0
Jesus - JAIL!!? ... What kind of jail will they have to go through??
Will they taught how to kill / rob / mastermind international drug operations by real criminals?
- ukit0
Without commenting on who's right and who's wrong, it's interesting to see how the pirates are always a few steps ahead of the regulators. Back when I was in college, Napster was the big thing - then they got taken down and everyone moved to other services. A few years ago torrents became big and you could download entire movies. Now it seems like posting on file sharing sites (Rapidshare, Megaupload etc) is the method of choice. By the time these sites get taken down, it will probably be something else.
- hahaha. yeap, it's a sad indictment of all the money the studios fuck away.airey
- Napster was never shut down it was bought out and turned into a commercial platform. To me alarm bells go off knowing this.KwesiJ
- Yea, a commercial platform that went bankrupt and is looking for a buyer I hearukit
- yeah but thats only cos iTunes did it betterfiesta
- KwesiJ0
the thing is p2p is simply a effcient function of digital technology not a business model. I'm personally convinced that the major companies are after pirate bay and oink because piracy and the lack of any recouperable losses to the artists and labels but because its an independant entity with a huge wealth of marketing info and consumer pull. See when verizon sued google over youtube what happens is these two mega corps exchange data and go into backroom mingling mode while the media make a big deal over piracy. They can't really do that with PB.
- probably a bit of both for sure. but control of delivery is def a major issue.airey
- KwesiJ0
so does this mean anything for the site piratebay.org ?
- ukit0
I really think ad supported model is the only viable model that can really end piracy. Most networks now have their shows watchable online and that is a great step.
But I suspect ad rates for online are not near what they get for broadcast so it's still not a clear solution.
- sikma0
they may as well try to stop the tide from rolling in
- shinpo0
But - juhls - it is not stealing and not the same thing outside of the internet. Think about it closely.
1. Someone buys a cd - actually pays for it.
2. They upload it to the interwebs.
3. Someone else downloads it.
4. Now there are two copies.So in actuality, the person who downloads it actually produces another copy thereby expanding the merchandise without have to pay people to produce a physical copy.
In essence they are helping the industry by cutting down the costs of production.
Here is another point. If you had a pound of pure gold and I had the power to replicate it would that be stealing from the earth? I mean the earth didn't make that gold and all I did was copy it, but you wouldn't complain about that would you?
Another un-sci fi example. We clone human embryos. They don't make new ones, but clone ones that are already there. Is that stealing? It is the same principle. Except a human life is more valuable than intellectual property - IMO. What about the sheep they cloned? There was already an original and yet they saw fit to make another copy of something that already existed.
The thing it boils down to MONEY. Always has, always will. Please download the documentary on infringement and intellectual property from here and then form an opinion. http://www.stealthisfilm.com/Par…
- Your argument reduces the value of the item in question. You don't give away source files for your work, do you?blaw
- juhls0
It's the hydra effect.
- KwesiJ0
I don't think they're trying to stop a damn thing i think they're exploiting the situation. Like they say in the artcle if they wanted to stop piracy they should stop the people from pirating. Its a bit like policing drug dealing by imprisoning addicts.