Politics
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- locustsloth0
1) It doesn't seem like a strategy, he just seems angry. For what initial reason i have no idea, but he's using politics as a device to let his anger out, which is good, but doesn't solve his problem.
2) "the numebr one thing though is exponential growth and costly technology that allows peopel to live longer while not producing a dime." So, i may be misreading this, but are you saying that technology should only be used on people who financially contribute to the...what? Country? Taxes? Society as a whole? i'm sure i'm misinterpreting this sentence, but if not, that's wuite an opinion
- deathboy0
yes they have to pay for there service somehow. if no ones pays way they suck up more cost then they produce u go bankrupt. its common business. The model they have to pay for medicare makes absolutely no sense. money is a resource and is limited. so yes contribute financially. healthcare isnt a right its a service provided by others and you have to pay forit, if u cant, hope soemone who care sofr you can if not i guess your shitout of luck. it may be a cold approach but its reality. and you can call it an opinion but its a fact of life. i mean come on i have a pre existing condition of being financially challenged, should i be able to claim the right to a ferrari. well i have the right to claim and if i try to enforce my claim the gov should be the ones to stop me, but right now theyr edoing the enforcing purely for agenda. both sides. usually the one with the largest power tries to enforce their agenda one way or the other. and angry mob is liekly upset becuase peopel are tlaking nonsense, insisting theyre right to take away his individual rights. regardless insults are jsut hollow words that listener gives value too. if u take an insult super seriously the mental deficiency is on your end. not liek the speaker can enforce you to think or feel something, if he could u would be with him no?
so yup high medicla technology is no different then the high tech ferrari. your ability to make money covers your desire. thats simply life we live it everyday, but becuase we are looking at healthcare as some sort of right we think we can have it. its bad logic.a world where peopel can have whatever they want without earnign it somehow is jsut fictional. should FOCUS on what really lead to the increase (usually gov laws) that stifle competition and increase an industry to call the shots. media is owned by biased interests so they wont tell u, plus so many journos are worthless. the parties wont tell you becuase there interest is in expanding control/power, and they only try to blame one sid eor the other ignoring the fact theyre to side of the same bizness ruining shit. all i hear here mostly is repeated soundbytes, some may strike truth here and there, but if a soundbyte is jsut regurgitated without any comprehensionof what is said or any critical thinking applied its worthless regardless of tru or not. like a blind shooter if he hit a bullseye in 500 shots its not skill its luck and adds up to nodda. its terrible how many people will willign give up their rights or try to giv eup the rights of others simply becuase they refuse to or dotn want to think or take any responsibilty themsleves for being ...themselves. so sicne medicla care is a big deal first we need to realize its not a right, its a service that costs money, and if we want to cover more people (peopel we dont know and dont care about social conditioning tell us we need to think with feelign and not logic) we really need to IDENTIFY the causes. I cant stress enough IDENTIFY, because so many people forget to identify the real case and that leads to irrational bullshit. When we identify the causes then we can alleviate them and bring the costs down as manageable as possible, but still we cant forget the medical field has a lot of high cost ferrari types of treatments, so maybe we need to also setup hyundai type treatments, and that not everyoen can afford the highest cost. yes it would be nice if everyone could, but its fantasy. jsut as its a fantasy if everyone could have ferraris and regular service for a few bucks a month.
- < hte wortst sphelling i haved everd seed befort.utopian
- yup i dont spell check becuase. studies show people with little intelligence can make out mispellingsdeathboy
- but spelling aside its logical. or if u want feel free to insult me and ingore it.deathboy
- In your view is education a "right?". Looks like you bypassed your freedom to exercise it.Mimio
- ok what is the error?deathboy
- You're missing the fact that we're basically paying for a public option now at exorbitant prices and protecting private profits with fed subsidies.Mimio
- ..profits with federal subsidies (research/regulation...Mimio
- yes we are. and why are we? how did and where did the prices come from. med expensive? laws?deathboy
- saying exhorbant prices are the problem is nto an option its a symptom of a cause and i dotn buy the blind greed thingdeathboy
- its lack of competition, now what laws stifle the competition that gov created for their friendly ceosdeathboy
- The subsidies exist to spur on research into areas that benefit society but aren't necessarily high profit.Mimio
- yea i understand subsidies that in most cases mount to nothing. and thsoe are fine when not in a huge deficitdeathboy
- but im not sure i wa tlaking of subsidies at all so i dont know what they have to dodeathboy
- utopian0
my brains hurtz
- ukit0
Jesus Christ deathboy...I'll post the chart one more time
The argument is nonsensical. You are so sure a free market health care system works...why? Where's the evidence?
There's no evidence. Everything points to the fact that some kind of hybrid government/ private system can work quite well.
Pretty much every other modernized country in the world has implemented something like that. You can read case by case here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni…
Of course no system is ever going to be perfect but the fact that an approach like this has been successful in countries as different as England, Israel, Japan, and Trinidad tells you something, doesn't it? They all have lower costs and better quality of care than us.
And yea, it turns out that if you ensure everyone, your costs go down, not up. I know it's a little more complicated of an economic argument, but do some reading on the subject.
You can't make an argument based on ideology alone.
- Might be important to note that none of these countries have gone down the Stalinist Russian, Nazi Germany route.IRNlun6
- just a matter of time. when the capital dries up is when it happens lenin started with a broke countrydeathboy
- Maybe on the worst case scenario but this isn't nearly a certainty and it won't be because they have national healthcare. That isn't a catalyst to dictatorships...IRNlun6
- ... healthcare. This isn't a catalyst to dictatorship.IRNlun6
- its a catalyst to economic collapse. sinc eits absolutely unsustainabledeathboy
- unless... u were to practice eugenics. even then u lose innovation. and fiscal collapse leads to dictatorshipsdeathboy
- its the extreme, end game stuff it wont happen over night. its not a scare tactic its historydeathboy
- Which countries have collapsed because of public healthcare? Military spending took down USSR and a bullet took down Nazi Germany.IRNlun6
- ...Nazi Germany. This is kind of a moot point though because no one is proposing a government take over. That's impossible in this country. Impossible.IRNlun6
- impossible, and I say that because we have 70 lobbyist per congressman/congress...IRNlun6
- its an extreme case i said. when shit hits bottom. shits not bad and we cant be responsibledeathboy
- but yes its moot if your simply looking at a shrot time spandeathboy
- AngryMob0
^ Eliminate the shit we Americans eat everyday, in this country of "fat-asses", and our life expectancy tics upwards, significantly. Eliminate the illegal residents of this country who tax our healthcare system and the cost drops significantly. Period.
Now, let's be clear. Your chart is out of context and a bunch of bullshit. Period. You think because it comes from Wikipedia that it's to be believed? Hahahaha! Even if it were accurate, you're leaving out a number of extremely important considerations here.
So Ukit, nice chart, nice try, but once again, balled-faced spin and misinformation abounds you sheep (O-baaaahhhhh-maaaaaa).
- DrBombay0
It is funny that on your Community sites, you come off as such a nice guy. Then you turn into Michael Savage on this site. You have multiple personalities.
- deathboy0
the chart is out of context doesnt explain anythign about age related to lifestyle, different type of mortalities, or that we spend more becuase we have a private system and peopel choose to have more care. or if the chart also considers plastic surgery. see this is what i mean critical thinking. how when u insure everyone do costs go down. i know care goes down, i know cost goes down when u reduce care, your other countries have proven that. your other countries also lack medical innovation. they have larger wait times. most peopel have to carry extra coverage. and most of the systems are starting to hemorage money. france is even thinking of makign peopel pay, but the peopel wont allow it even if it bankrupts them. im fine with my health coverage.
medicare is bankrupt. social security is bankrupt. those policies are smaller policies that we created after seeign germany. they are great examples of how it does not work. but still numebr one it is wrogn becuase its private business and private decisions, it fucks with our right to choose, the rights the gov's only job is to protect so we dont gang rape each other. 2) its not fiscally sustainable. if it is then tell me how, becuase if u tell me then we can apply it to medicare and see if its true. wouldnt u want to be the guy who fixed medicare?
- Mimio0
The government and the medical industry are inseparable. The US Fed Gov funds about $30 billion dollars per year in biomedical research to benefit which private industry profits from directly and indirectly. If the Gov were to cut off funding you wouldn't see the pure research that produces innovation in our system, it's completely reliant upon it.
- Not mention the tens of billions of dollars the FDA requires to regulate the entire industry.Mimio
- $30 BILLION IS NOT $1 TRILLION WITH COMPLETE OWNERSHIP.AngryMob
- $1 trillion over ten years, brain stem.DrBombay
- well then why do other uni care countries fall behind on innovationdeathboy
- and the FDA is a gov organizations that increases costs of medical caredeathboy
- necessary but id look into it to see where to trim soem fat and speed thigns updeathboy
- utopian0
Ridge: Bush officials sought to raise terror alert before '04 vote
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS…
Same old Republican bullshit that will not go away, go figure! Or should I say Bushit...
- < But Obama is a flat out liar. Would you like for me to post a complete listing here, of how he's jerking your chain?AngryMob
- It's ok for you to believe Obama is a liar, those it make manipulating terror threats for politics any less reprehensible?IRNlun6
- "does"IRNlun6
- Sure, give us your list.DrBombay
- ukit0
Ah...OK, I gotcha, you are gonna believe what you want to believe, and it doesn't matter what the facts says.
Just don't called it critical thinking.
That's exactly what the chart shows, that countries that implement a hybrid system don't reduce care or hemorrage money. If care was really reduced they wouldn't have longer lifespans, would they?
You're living in a fantasy world created by George Bush's ad guys.
And BTW Social Security is not bankrupt. At the current rate it would start to run into issues about 40 years from now if no changes were made.
- You can throw stats and studies at these guys all day and they will not change their opinions. It is that rigid conservative gene.DrBombay
- gene.DrBombay
- yes that graph shows how americans are lazier and fatter, and cause of death is neglectdeathboy
- oh so that means social security works? seems liek it looks to me as it doesnt work.deathboy
- in may 2009 they estimated ss at 2037 - 28 years. but as time passes that year decreases too.... medi soonerdeathboy
- but i apologize i shouldnt haev used the term bankrupt, i meant goign to eb bankruptdeathboy
- and takign the graph at face value shows a lack of critical thinkingdeathboy
- AngryMob0
Drbombay, cut n paste the language from the 1018 page healthcare bill that backs up your claim that illegal residents will be EXCLUDED from healthcare treatment (not a plan/coverage, but TREATMENT, i.e.: emergency room visits). Otherwise, shut your god damned pie-hole.
*Note to DrB: You can't, so shut up.
- Emergency rooms turn away no one. Go back to fucking Guatemala if you want that.DrBombay
- DrBombay0
One of the myths circulating is that illegal aliens will be covered under HR320, the only health care reform “bill” under consideration right now. They aren’t. Section 246 of HR320 says, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”
Go look up these facts for yourself next time.
- I said "emergency room visits". Oh yes, they WILL be covered. You FAIL. Oh, and if they aren't covered in the emergency room, this sits o.k. with you?AngryMob
- No plan is going to turn people away at emergency rooms. Can't believe you are advocating it actually.DrBombay
- room, this sits o.k. with you? If you say "yes" you're a fucking hypocrite. If you say "no", you're a fucking hypocrite.AngryMob
- Just another example of how fucked up this bill really is, and how fucking stupid you O-Baaahhh-Maaaa sheep are.AngryMob
- Sorry, money doesn't rule my every waking thought. Stay Shallow, Wil.DrBombay
- Oh... a fucking loophole already? Yep, that's the way you spin shit good Dr.AngryMob
- What loophole exactly?DrBombay
- DrBombay0
Wilhelm, my advice to you is take your insurance card go to a clinic and have your head examined. People give you facts, figures, links and all you have is rhetoric. You never post anything to try to actually convince anyone differently. You do this over and over again and wind up with the same result every single time. It obviously frustrates you.
- AngryMob0
O-Baaahhh-Maaaa... O-Baaahhh-maaa... O-Baaahhh-maaa...
- DrBombay0
Wil, part of living in a civilized nation is that when you have people who are hurt in an emergency, you stop the bleeding, fix the broken bone etc and then worry about payment later. This is what all civilized countries do. Am I right in thinking that you are advocating: anyone who is not a citizen should be turned away at the hospital front desk?
- ukit0
You know what's funny as hell?
Conservatives like GetDepressed blame everything on illegal immigrants, but who was it who tried to legalize illegal immigrants? Wasn't it George Bush and the Republicans?
Who was the last President who succeeded in giving illegals amnesty?
Was it this Reagan? Oh yeah it was. He signed that bill into law.
And even funnier, the guy running this group called FreedomWorks which is behind most of the tea parties is 100% for amnesty.
"In 2006, Armey’s lobbying firm represented the Senado de Republica (Mexican Senate) on “enhancing U.S.-Mexico relations,” and specifically on immigration policy. Curiously, during the same period, Armey’s Freedom Works stood out as one of the few right wing organizations to boldly support comprehensive immigration reform."
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05…
http://www.reason.tv/video/show/…
http://www.issues2000.org/TX/Dic…
These guys don't give two shits about your idea of conservative. They just want to make more money for their donors, and cheap labor = $.
So remember, everytime you go to event funded by FreedomWorks like the "march of Washington" thing they are trying to have, you are marching for a guy who supports giving amnesty to Mexican illegals.
- btw, Will isn't a conservative, he's an idiot. Real conservatives don't think like that. Just an fyi.mathinc
- IRNlun60
How is turning people away from Emergency rooms any less ethical than death panels? I'm absolutely positive we won't see two things from this bill. A government takeover and death panels. Two options that were never proposed.
- AngryMob0
1) Seal the US borders
2) Provide a path to residency and/or citizenship to all "good" people currently here illegally
3) Ensure that all who come here illegally after 1 and 2 are shipped the fuck back to where they came from post hasteSimple. No fuss, no muss. A policy that most Americans should be able to live with.
- lol. sounds like nazi talk to me.sigg
- Funniest part is he is an immigrant.DrBombay
- WTF? You're a clown.AngryMob
- hey AngryMob are you a Native American? If not you're an illegal alien in my book.fooler2
- No, most native americans were exterminated by the white man you clueless fucktard.AngryMob
- I have ten native friends that would think you are not a nice person.DrBombay
- no fuss no muss, http://blogs.chron.c… STFUBattleAxe
- BattleAxe, you didn't read my post close enough. I said let those here now stay. Post that, illegals go home. Get it?AngryMob