Anti-Rand
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- NeinPattern0
"The brochure pulled in new business for them and increased their profile among the people they wanted to work for."
You're joking, right? Who gives a fuck...you earned some schmuck's a few dollars. Is that praise-worthy?
"I have seen the ministry grow and have received enthusiastic responses."
Again...yawn.
I looked at the hand logo...honestly poor work from a design standpoint, and useless for the real purpose, which is to sell some paintings. The logo is never seen again, it was purely ego masturbation on the part of the widow to use it.
As for the book you made your wife, I will give you credit...but as an artist. I consider what you created to be a piece of art, mainly because it consisted of your own original creation and content. The presentation wasn't as important as the meaning. Design is presentation. Art has meaning.
- menos0
ahhh...the subjectiveness of it all...
gramme, all those things almost made ME shed a tear ;) but all you said is relevant to you and that's great. Obviously your proposal letter to your wife won't be as emotional to NeinPattern as it was for your wife.
for the large, and therefore most common part, design is in general just a veneer. of course anyone needing a logo or business card can just do it themselves ms paint! but they choose not too. maybe it's because 'we' have managed to sell it to them that without design they are nothing. sometimes they continue to be nothing with design...
Nein: art has SOME meaning. surely we don't need to go into the whole recent disputes of artists letting dogs die or sticking crystals on skulls (and selling for absurd amounts!)
- NeinPattern0
I'm a romantic. I look at ideals.
And the ideals of Art are far more noble than the ideals of Design. Yes, they are both sometimes muddied by the sewage of capitalism, but we define who we are--as individuals, as a people--by our ideals.
- Mimio0
Nein you could also take a more anthropological perspective though. The things we conceive, engineer, and ultimately choose to surround ourselves with are just as much a mirror of ourselves than what's hanging up in a gallery. When you know this beforehand, the thing you create can be just as evocative too.
- gramme0
I agree that in execution the hand logo sucks. I thought it was good in 2003, not so much now. Live and learn...
I'll leave aside comments on the other jabs you make since they aren't coherent arguments so much as reflections on your own disenchantment.
I strongly disagree with the notion that design is only presentation. I/we often create content for our clients. I have personally done my fair share of writing. We always get involved at the strategic level. True there are many designers who do nothing but add a sheen to pre-existing content, but I thankfully don't fall into that category.
I think some people offer valuable services and ideas, even if they make a buck while doing it. What is so wrong about helping them promote those services/ideas?
- oldelpaso0
So what about Sagmeister Inc
And the Design that touches someone's heart projects?
also the problem is that good design goes unseen. it filters into your subconscious with everyday things like road signage, warning labels, manuals etc..
the problem is your preception of graphic design seems to based on that of a glorified illustrator... truth is.. graphic design is a behind the scenes job.. its not supposed to make you famous
- its communication, wether it is for a big as conglomerate or for the local dehli, or even to tell ur flat mate ur in the sh*tter.most of the 'graphic design' u see out there is as much graphic design.. as most of the 'art' out there is art...
its all an insipid drivel of illustration and typography
but who's complaining?
- menos0
I'm a romantic. I look at ideals.
And the ideals of Art are far more noble than the ideals of Design. Yes, they are both sometimes muddied by the sewage of capitalism, but we define who we are--as individuals, as a people--by our ideals.
NeinPattern
(Nov 13 07, 13:44)hey, im with you on that one! i believe that myself. but that doesn't mean i will be making myself angry at the state of the world. if you're not happy, do something about it. act! do a 'first things first manifesto'... i just think it's not too productive to just complain...
speaking of which, what's your view on that first manifesto and the 2000 one, NeinPattern? i'm simply curious. Everyone else is invited to discuss this too!
- wunderbra0
Nein is not in anyway related to that Neen collective, no?
- menos0
oldelpaso
(Nov 13 07, 13:50)
- oldelpaso0
so you believe in the concept of ideals..
and then you 'yawn' at Gramme's designs for causes that agree with his ideals...
- oldelpaso0
but going back to the emo haircut comment....
i happen to be supporting a
Post-Ironic JewFro with a Chris Rodriguez moustache...
- NeinPattern0
that's hott, oldelpase
- oldelpaso0
that's hott, oldelpase
NeinPattern
(Nov 13 07, 13:56)makes a change from the dubious glares i get on the tube...
- ukit0
Nein, you're misreading the purpose of graphic design.
The profession exists to fulfill a necessary function in society - to facilitate communication between people.
Just like film, music, and architecture, sometimes it rises to the level of art, sometimes not, but your argument that its worthless when it subverts its artistic ambition is just idiotic.
The newspaper you read in the morning, the signs you use to find your way to work, this site...all examples of design that doesn't pretend to be some huge artistic statement, and all the better for it.
- menos0
all examples of design that doesn't pretend to be some huge artistic statement, and all the better for it.
ukit
(Nov 13 07, 13:59)god i hate pretentiousness...
- gramme0
Ukit articulates it better than I.
- gramme0
I think it's pretty awesome when people drop in, talk smack and leave, with nary a portfolio to bolster their claims. High class!
- play0
Piet Zwart was ze biggest wart of zem all
- menos0
Ukit articulates it better than I.
gramme
(Nov 13 07, 14:01)