God's warriors
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- Mimio0
//Is this the "shrill cry" you're speaking of? cuz I think I heard that bellowing from a Church on my way to the library.
- automaticAb0
You know it's crazy; this type of thing always starts such a huge debate. I don't understand why. The Christians are always trying to prove that God exists and atheists always do the opposite; they undermine the Christians and what they believe, always claiming that this stuff is being shoved down their throat...And it gets so heated. If both parties would just step back a minute and listen to yourselves. It's really just ridiculous. Neither side is proving anything except that both sides can maybe, at best, argue and debate really well. How does this help anyone? If you are an atheist than be one, if that is what you want to be; but you cannot prove that there is no God. If you beleive in God believe and beleive w/ all of what is inside you. It is not my job to prove anything to anyone. God's existance does not depend on whether I believe in Him or not. We have to remember also that the media, right or left, (whatever that means) is only good for stirring up controversy. They feed on this type of thing. They survive off of it. There are no real benefits from this. It will be gone in a year and in another year another show will be produced that will stir all of you up again. I can't prove anything to any of you but when you behave in this way you prove a lot to me. That all we are good for is to bicker like the children that we actually are. Just little kids talking over each other trying to prove our points.
Please don't put me in the "Hate" box; the media created that box, put me in it and then called me intolerant. Then I became dumb because there was just no way that I could believe in Christ and be smart. What did I ever do to be called that. I don't condemn anyone of anything. I am a Christian but not because of anything anyone says or does but b/c of what Christ did for me on the cross. I don't go around trying to prove anything to anyone or patronizing anyone. I don't hate anyone. I wish people would stop saying that. I'm not dumb either. Jesus is not my crutch. He is my God and Lord. I know who I was and who I am now. That's proof enough for me. I remember reading something somewhere that just stuck with me, "I would much rather live my life like there is a God and find out that there isn't than live my life like there is no God and find out that there is." Maybe you may think that you're too smart to believe that , thats fine, you have that choice.
- gramme0
automaticAb, I agree with every last word you said above. It's true that much cannot be proven and thus faith comes into play. As much as people argue the superiority of logic these days, gut level beliefs still win. I guess the best approach is to try to focus on living a life that speaks louder than words.
- Mimio0
Sorry beliefs don't trump logic and facts. There's only way to know if something is true or not. You're right we fundamentally disagree.
- Brookoioioi0
So you ask me if i would believe if it could be proved, i say yes, an that should be easy considering the premise. And you counter by saying "oh well, it can't be proven anyway, so never mind..."
(An all powerful being who can hear our thoughts and *BUILT THE WHOLE UNIVERSE!* Can't offer up proof of his own existence? Err.. omni potency slipping away.... )
And add the cherry on top by simply asserting that "humans are prone to disbelief" so what, we would just say "nah, thats not God, it's just done with smoke and mirrors innit..."
Last call for the train to woo-woo land, all aboard...
P.S. I don't care about disciplers mud-slinging, so don't worry eh?
- Brookoioioi0
"When i'm thinking about something important i try not to use my gut."
Carl Sagan
We miss you Carl.
- Mimio0
If "using your gut" was acceptable rationale we'd still be in the dark ages walking in lockstep, bashing our heads intermittently with Bibles and chanting.
- gramme0
well Brook, I stated my case above about how God actually did appear in the flesh. There are thousands of firsthand accounts from that time period. There are more records of the life of Jesus than of Julius Caesar. Nobody doubts that Caesar lived, that's of course because he didn't make the kind of claims Christ made.
Like automaticAb says, why does God require our belief to validate his existence?
Fine if you don't/won't believe, but there is no need to insult my intelligence. Then again, I'm kinda used to it, people who don't share my beliefs usually think I'm a few fries short of a happy meal. C'est la vie, c'est la guerre.
- Mimio0
Thousand of first hand accounts? Where?
- gramme0
Mimio I'm not suggesting that people have abandoned logic altogether. I just think the paradigm of hyper-rationalism is not a strong as it was 50 years ago. I'm merely saying that in general, people know less about history and philosophy than ever before, because they are lazy, complacent and or ruled by their emotions.
There are of couse exceptions such as you, Mimio; you seem to be intelligent and curious, for example, and I detect no apathy coming from you.
- JesseJensen0
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but Flagellum trumped.
- gramme0
Beyond the four gospels and the stacks of 'gospels' that weren't included in the Bible, there are Jewish and Roman accounts to be found as well. I'll dig some up and get back to you when I can devote more time. I do actually have a job, regardless of what you hear ;)
- mrdobolina0
Like automaticAb says, why does God require our belief to validate his existence?
Fine if you don't/won't believe, but there is no need to insult my intelligence. Then again, I'm kinda used to it, people who don't share my beliefs usually think I'm a few fries short of a happy meal. C'est la vie, c'est la guerre.
gramme
(Aug 27 07, 09:06)because christians use it to effect politics and public policy.
- BonSeff0
400 milliion chinese can't be wrong
- gramme0
because christians use it to effect politics and public policy.
mrdobolina
(Aug 27 07, 09:13)I stay out of politics, beyond voting for things I believe in.
- Brookoioioi0
Someone claiming to be god incarnate is not evidence. I don't doubt Jesus existed. I don't think current Religious scholars would agree about any first hand accounts but as i've little interest in theology i wouldn't know. It still doesn't help you're argument, if God could prove his existence, but chooses not to, why should i believe anything another human simply asserts on me? I could claim to have a mystical ham sandwich that rules the universe, and since you can't disprove it you had better believe it. I hope that in this case you would demand evidence. I just do the same when it comes to imaginary super beings.
- mrdobolina0
I stay out of politics, beyond voting for things I believe in.
gramme
(Aug 27 07, 09:17)but many people do. sorry but you are the baby that the bath water is fucking up.
- gramme0
I actually get really angry when I see preachers and priests switch over to politics and try to leverage their resume of piety to garner votes. I would agree with the staunchest of atheists that it is abhorrent. It totally tramples the message they were originally entrusted with. I for one believe that the separation of church & state is a good thing, believe it or not.
- Mimio0
Jesse, Flagellum didn't trump anyone. Invoking "Unnatural Selection" in the creation of genetic information does not an argument make. In fact it's the same old shit.
- JesseJensen0
Keep telling yourself that, Mimio. And everything will be alright.