no jail Scooter
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- TheBlueOne0
... i'm discussing PERJURY. It's a crime - it has consequences... none which took to Clinton... ;)
PonyBoy
(Jul 3 07, 13:49)Indeed it is a crime.
a) Clinton was never convicted of it. It was alleged and the Congress proceeded on Impeachment charges based on the allegation of it,
b) Clinton was impeached and disbarred. Fairly significant consequences for alleged perjury.
c) Heck 'll concur that Clinton committed perjury with his whole "I did not have sex.." line. Although it was a sideline line of questioning in an ongoing witchhunt by Republicans into his financial dealings that bore zero fruit.
d) Libby was convicted of perjury lying directly about the matter at hand in an ongoing investigation. One about taking the country to war on false pretenses.
- mrdobolina0
exactly, blueone.
apples and oranges.
- PonyBoy0
apples and oranges...
... where no one goes to jail.
- TheBlueOne0
...and how pissed off do you think the muckity mucks in the CIA are about this? I bet REAL pissed.
Look, this is and has been my point about the fucking Bush Administration since almost the beginning: All these things are bad - Lying to get us into a war, Katrina disaster, economic mismanagement, etc..all fucking terrible..but the worst thing this administration has done to undermine the functioning of our government is to politicize the bureacracy. Seriously, look, the US government ran as well as it did because there was little political allegience or corruption in the parts of government that did the business of government.
Bush has guys in the Forrest Service sign loyalty oaths!! They put guys in charge in NASA who had political agendas. And who can forget Heckuva Job Brownie..And forget what they've done to our military officer corp, especially in the Air Force...They gutted completely non-political professional jobs and stuck there fucking flunkies everywhere - it was a Soviet/Nazi model, not an American one.
This line of action will have disastorous consequences looong after Bush is forgotten, especially if these non-political buearacracies remain politicized by whoever is in office. That will be Bush's main domestic politcal legacy and it fucking stinks.
- TheBlueOne0
... where no one goes to jail.
PonyBoy
(Jul 3 07, 14:03)Because Clinton wasn't convicted in a court of law.
- mrdobolina0
this isnt about libby going to jail or not, it is about the trashing of the constitution.
Bill Clinton lied to cover up a blow job.
Scooter Libby lied to cover up false documents that started an illegal war that our country is going to be involved in forever.
Apples and Oranges.
- PonyBoy0
agreed, agreed... AND agreed, blueOne.
... look to the top though... Libby's not your man... right?
He's hurtin' enough in my opinion... take some cash... strip him of his career and make him report to P.O. for two years... cuz he lied.
I just looked into Clinton and his 'conviction'...
... you are right. My bad. He was impeached due to two hard-evidence pieces showing the man lying under oath... including in a videotaped 'legal testimony'... His impeachment was his 'conviction'...
... so... *swallows pride... your point is valid. ;)
- PonyBoy0
I'm gonna go see Transformers right now...
... I'd ask you both to roll with... but you're too damned far away. ;)
PEAAAAACE!!!
- TheBlueOne0
Bill Clinton lied to cover up a blow job.
mrdobolina
(Jul 3 07, 14:05)Actual Bill Clinton said he "did not have sex" which may or may not be true depending on how the court documents in question defined what constituted "sexual relations" , however he said this in an inquiry into his financial proceedings and perjury charges stick usually when you're lying about something, you know, relevant to the subject of the investigation. If he were a regular citizen a court probably would've laughed the case out of court.
Like if you went to court for stealing a car, and under oath the Prosecutor asked you "Did you have potato chips today?" And then you said "No", even though you had Pringles, which might or might not be considered potato chips bc they're made from extruded potato powder, and then they found you not guilty of stealing the car, there's no way you'd be convicted of lying about having potato chips for lunch.
And that's my analysis of the whole false cannard the Conservative fruitcakes throw up with the Clinton example...but they're all obsessed with sex anyway..
- TheBlueOne0
... so... *swallows pride... your point is valid. ;)
PonyBoy
(Jul 3 07, 14:09)*Buys PonyBoy a drink for being a man and swallowing pride.
We might disagree from time to time, but you're an honorable dude.
- PonyBoy0
eh... I've talked to you and Dobs enough to know that you only have 'my'/'yours' and 'the country's' interests (best) in mind...
... I'm not here to fight and call names... I just like to talk about it all and see if I can make sense of it... if you set me straight... so-be-it.
:)
You're both honorable in my book (my book is legible on a 6th grade level... so it's not tough to be in it)... :D
- TheBlueOne0
..god..I want to leave this alone, but just one final point, Libby was investigated by a Republican appointed prosecuter in a case oversaw by a conservative judge who was appointed by Bush himself earlier in his presidency. It was a Republican judge who passed down the sentence. There was zero political input form the Dems on this whole process.
Clinton was knee deep in dealing with a politicized attack by the Republican party and impeached under the leadership of Newt Gingrich.
Yet...yet..the Republican talking heads all talk about how seeking jailtime for Libby is some sort of sour grapes by us Dirty Fucking Hippies, I mean Liberals...I'm in a tizzy at the intellectual dishonesty...
Anyway...I'm off..Happy Birthday America!!
- pyeaton0
I am tired of this Clinton did it crap.
OK then. I am going to go out and kill 13 people. Must be ok. Jeff Dahmer did it.
- TheBlueOne0
Jeff Dahmer did it.
pyeaton
(Jul 3 07, 15:04)wait..was Dahmer a registered Republican or Democrat?
;)
- material-10
the worst thing about this is bush is just mocking the country at this point. he's the decider, no consultation with justice dept. etc. Just help his cronies at all expenses.
I can't really celebrate july 4th this year without feeling pissed. The founders weep.
- material-10
excellent interview with joe wilson on democracy now this morning.
audio of todays show usually available after 12noon or listen on public and community radio stations
http://www.democracynow.org/
- k0na_an0k0
The hypocrisy is unpardonable. President Bush's decision to commute the sentence of a convicted liar brought out the worst in both parties.
art.protest.afp.gi.jpgIn keeping I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby out of jail, Bush defied his promise to hold wrongdoers accountable and undercut his 2000 campaign pledge to "restore honor and dignity" to the White House. And it might be a cynical first step toward issuing a full pardon at the conclusion of his term.
Democrats responded as if they don't live in glass houses, decrying corruption, favoritism and a lack of justice.
"This commutation sends the clear signal that in this administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice," said Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, a leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.
It was a brazen statement from a woman entangled in many Clinton White House scandals, including the final one: On his last day in office, President Clinton granted 140 pardons and 36 commutations, many of them controversial.
One of those pardoned was Marc Rich, who had fled the country after being indicted for tax evasion and whose wife had donated more than $1 million to Democratic causes.
Clinton's half brother, Roger, who was convicted of distributing cocaine and lobbied the White House on behalf of others, also received a pardon.
- monkeyshine0
Kona, I'm feeling pretty disgusted by the democrats right now but I think this Libby controversy goes much deeper than "well they did it too". And to dismiss the implications of Bush, etc.s actions just adds to the noise and perpetuates the disease.