Creationist Lies
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- k770
lalala!
- Kes0
ok now your being a tit discipler.
i gave you examples of several species what show intermediate species.
Your website just says - Bats suddenly appeared, and there are no intermediate fossils.
But just because we haven't found those fossils (and i don't know if we have or not) doesn't prove that intermediate species didn't exists. Finding interemediate species for other animals is enough to support evolution.
I dont get the point of that argument? it doesn't fly against evolution..
- subflux0
oooo, and I'm reeeeeally trying not to get sucked back into this....
but...
...the short answer (mainly because I dont feel like looking things up and copy/pasting :-)
Mitochondrial diversity in mammals (anilids aren't mammals) requires a baseline amount of competetion, no better way to achieve that than a little competition over sexual mates (trust me, I've been there). Progeny rearing required by the longer term gestation and maturation plays into this as well. Thus the evolutionary solution of the genders. There are a number of ampibs (nicley wedged in between anilids and higher life forms) that can switch gender as the population requires; these would be the transitionals for this extent. (now ask me where this wonderful little biosystem came from and we might start agreeing :-) )
All without copy/paste, my prof would be proud...
Another round please, this one's warm...
- Mimio0
God isn't a "how" jakeyj. That's like saying the universe is magic. Most scientists think nothing can escape explaination (scientific scrutiny).
- TheTick0
I used to argue with brother Discipler as well. Now I realize he's using scientific terms and conscepts as part of some kind of christian incantation to dispell the truth of those scientific concepts away. These 21st century christian fundies have learned form the mistakes of their past - they don't challenge or try to conquer - they co-opt.
And be VERY wary when christianity co-opts because that is precisely how it has survived for two thousand years. Especially true of the Catholic Church, of which discipler is not representative of, bu t nonetheless the co-option strategy remains because it is successful.
Whereas the Catholic church adapted to native customs and religions and made them their own (Saints, holidays, etc..) and turned heretical movements into church doctrine (the Cult of Mary fetish - which derived from the heresy of the Cathars in 12th century France. The Cathars were the subject of the first inquiistion and wiiped out, but the church found the cult of mary useful so kept it).
A bit of hope arose with Luther and the early Portestant Reformation which led to the high water mark of the Enlightement..but sadly Christianity is back to it's old tricks -looking to co-opt science into it's spider webs of faith.
Sad, as it doesn't have to be so. Christianity is too insecure though to live with a rival.
Science started out as a christian heresy anyway - a methodology to know the mind of god. There's a reason they went after Galileo you know and it had nothing to do with where the sun and earth were. Had everyting to do with someone trying to observe God's handiwork in nature and explain it. Churches don't like that stuff to be explained - they keep it all mysterious. Better that way..
The Tick out..
- Kes0
seriously the website says
"Gaps in fossil records- Bats suddenly appeared"
umm, you mean we found a batlike creature so many millions of years ago fossilised, but not before then? What does that prove?
- Mimio0
So true Tick.
- Kes0
nice one subflux. i wish i had your knowledge blud!
- discipler0
kes, if you've read all of those articles and still hold your position, then you are blatantly intellectually dishonest. Because numerous items in your post are answered by PHD's treatments I've linked. And this is just the Creationist's position! I haven't even shown you sources from ID scientists (who by the way do NOT embrace macro-evolution from species to species, but rather certain forms of microevolutionary adaptation).
Kes, you and I both know that the real issue here is that you are desperately trying to support your long held caricature of Christians behind ignorant rednecks with no scientific basis for their claims about origins. You can't accept that your long embraced stereotype simply isn't true. :)
- QuincyArcher0
k77, i'm short on time too...
come on, Kes, we're just having a little fun.
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that jakeyj makes an excellent point.
- Kes0
i do apologise if this thread is annoying to some people. But i've had to stay back at office today and do some very laborious scanning and all sorts of mundane crap. Which has ruined my friday night.
so umm, u know?
- k770
yo mimio:
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.
© Albert Einstein
- TheTick0
Mimio: "That's like saying the universe is magic. Most scientists think nothing can escape explaination"
1) Religion IS magic.
2) Scientists do NOT think that nothing can escape explanation. They freely admit that they're might be some limits to human knowledge, but they still ask questions anyway. It the unelnlightened religious fundamentalists who want to keep everything mysterious and magical.
- mrdobolina0
fossils are older than 6,000 years.
sorry to keep harping on it, but how in the fuck can someone believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old. That is just idiotic.
- subflux0
thanks Kes, prolly the first chance I've got to use any of this since I graduated....I'm surprised it stuck in my brain considering how much smoke it had to get thru.
[fast-finishes current beer and buys a round for Kes]
- discipler0
Science... good science, and the Bible are in perfect harmony. Each support the other.
Kes, you know full well that the articles I cited contain considerable more data than "bats just appeared".
- Kes0
Kes, you and I both know that the real issue here is that you are desperately trying to support your long held caricature of Christians behind ignorant rednecks with no scientific basis for their claims about origins. You can't accept that your long embraced stereotype simply isn't true. :)
discipler
(Jun 10 05, 13:21)
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I swear on the life of my mother i have had no such stereotypes. See? This is why you're such a prickDiscipler, please stop inferring things and answer me directly.
And if you think i think you're an "intelligent" guy, you're sadly mistaken. Your a devoutly fundamentalist christian, who has spent his time reading books and websites like answeringgenesis to prove your fallacies. And there's many more like you in that great country of yours. So what?
Please be direct. The only intellectual dishonety i see is with you. I have honestly read the answeringgenesis website, and the wait of its pseduo science did disturb me. But then i read some more and understand how cleverly creationists distort science and everything else. It is such a clossola beast answeringgenesis, and that is why it works for simpletons like you.
- jakeyj0
Thank you Quincy
- jakeyj0
discipler, do you believe that the earth was created in a 'mature' state? just curious...
- subflux0
premise 1: the universe is infinite
premise 2: there are an infinite amount of things to learn
conclusion: we will never know everything.
I sometimes thnk that the best role of religion in society is to fill in the gaps until we figure it out.
[orders another beer to improve philosophizin']