Active vs Passive Voice
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- canoe
Have you ever held back advice because you don't know how the person is going to react?And I'm not talking about your crazy ex-girlfriend with the pixie haircut who says things like, "I wish I were a cat, life would be so easy."
What I am talking about is straight professional advice. You see my main copy writer bowed out and I'm back working with my near nemesis. Ugh. I've approached the subject in so many different ways, but she still has the tendency to write in the passive voice.
Now she's writing a 100 page website with me... and I'm like...
Should I bring it up ONE LAST time?
Or should I just STFU and let the client, copy and visitor suffer?
I feel like I have a fiduciary duty to have everything that has my name associated with it... it's not like I'm in this alone and I only care about the bread...
- canoe0
*scuse typos
- robotron3k-4
Luckily people dont read websites they scan, so just make your design exciting and her copy will sit there like a dead fish.
- When when you present the design work read out her copy in a dead pan voice in the meeting.robotron3k
- lolcanoe
- I think robo is the one who does not read hence his political viewsmoldero
- capn_ron1
"not to beat a dead horse, but this copy is very passive. I just want to go on record saying that I think it could be better. I think XYZ would sound better for the client and visitor. If we move forward with this I just want to make sure you know I am voicing my opinion now"
At least it makes it known you are thinking it could be better but also able to let it go if everyone else if fine with it.
- kona1
Hmmm... perhaps a slight re-write to the paragraph above. At face value over email, it may be taken very negatively by her.
Try...
"Listen bitch,..."
Wait no. Try...
"Hello (name), great work putting together the copy for the (name of project). It's coming together quite nicely!
However, I do have a thought as I'm reading things through. Is it just me or does the copy seem a bit indifferent and laid-back? I think it would do wonders if we worked together to rework a couple areas to really bring the copy to life and sound better for the client and visitor."
Obvi, that's shit what I wrote off the top of my head. I've found in my career that if an email comes across aggressive and negative your message will be completely lost. If you phrase it as "hey, great job but I think there could be some areas of improvement, can I offer suggestions" she may be more receptive. If that fails then you need to a) nicely state you disagree with it being ok. no need to say you're going on record as you'll have an email trail to send to your supervisor and b) say you can't be held accountable
Good luck canoe
- Yeah... emails are really tough regarding criticismcanoe
- monospaced0
If the client agrees with you the voice should be active, not passive, then that is really the start and end of the discussion. How she reacts shouldn't be an issue, she just needs to do it right, as requested by the paying client. Doing it wrong is not in her best interest.
- I was actually thinking about finding someone on the client side and notifying them... or the producer...canoe
- Frankly and frustratingly... the battle has become personal... they don't want to hear my advice regardless if it's a sureshot.canoe
- the client is the only one who can settle this once and for all, and you should share your opinion firmly with the client firstmonospaced
- hans_glib4
i'd hate to be a copywriter. most people think they can do design, everyone KNOWS they can write. (except they can't.)
copywriting is so subjective. just because you hate the passive voice doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, maybe it's right for this job.
it's down to the client to comment - by all means ask them if they're happy with it.
- That contradicts everything I've ever read by high profile copy writers. I'm surprised there are so many upvotes... guys do some research and text me backcanoe
- he's suggesting you clear it with the client, and I have to agreemonospaced
- As far as THAT point... do you expect me to go into the client and point out the copy writer... no... I also don't think the client knows better...canoe
- I'm not big on appeasing the client when their decisions will decrease conversion.canoe
- But thanks for your take on it... it's certainly one avenue to consider like I said.canoe
- uhhh, yes, actually, you should share your OPINION on the copy with the client, who owns the site, and let them approve itmonospaced
- I never said anything like that yet it won't be presented to the client in both voices... that's for sure... it's not really like that. The passive voice...canoe
- is not a typical voice used in marketing... ask 10 copy writers...canoe
- like... they wouldn't write something in the passive voice 'to see if it works' ...canoe
- I'm on your side! I'm saying, it's not really your call, but you're in a position to influence the client, whose say it IS.monospaced
- I always write passive..it's hard to change. Didn't really understand until a few days agoHayoth
- robthelad0
I'd hate to have to tip toe around my colleagues dudem that's a shame.
I would tell someone if you think they can do better. Don't leave it to someone else to complain / mention it, especially not the client.
Don't be passive... be active.
Our office is very open and critical, it is frustrating (honestly maddening), but it creates better work, and a better studio.
- renderedred0
I say anything to anybody and I expect the same in return. I must admit that I lost many jobs and ruined many opportunities by doing this, because people are usually two-faced pussies. ;)
- It's a minefield of snowflakesrobthelad
- yup! :)renderedred