Copyright

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  • clearThoughts

    dealing with it a lot recently...

    If you do a website for a client... who owns the copyright?
    Unless it is a web service (Facebook, Yahoo, Google, whatever) ... why would they want to own the copyright?

    If you give the copyright away, what are the implications of they wanting to claim they "OWN" the work you do for other clients?

    Since you might be using similar designs and code for other clients, right??

    Anyways - I think this is a mess in the digital world, and interested how you guys are dealing with it.

  • clearThoughts0

    *them

  • clearThoughts0

    * interesting to know... fuck, should re-read a post before I hit the "Broadcast Live" button

  • mydo0

    it's whatever you agree to with the client.

    If nothing was ever mentioned it would be interesting as to who's side the courts would take (if it ever came to that)

  • e-pill0

    copyright - wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cop…

    copyright - us govt
    http://www.copyright.gov/

    copyright - law and policy
    http://www.copyright.gov/laws/

    copyright - frequently asked questions
    http://www.copyright.gov/help/fa…

    • The never missing smart-ass commentclearThoughts
    • the answers all right there
      if its too much for you to do your own work then fuck off!!
      e-pill
  • omg0

    "the moment you create ANYTHING visual—paintings, drawings, photographs, sculptures, etc—the only person who is allowed to copy that art is you."

    http://emptyeasel.com/2008/03/18…

  • Sep0

    Quantum physics tells us that copyrights exist in a suspended physical state until observed, when they collapse to just one outcome — we don’t know what happens until we investigate, and our investigation influences that reality. Whether or not you own the copyright, may not actually be determined until some time in your future — it may actually be contingent upon actions that have not yet taken place

    • Hope this helps.Sep
    • It depends which universe you're at though... copyright laws are relative.clearThoughts
  • hellobotto0

    omg, stewart, e-pill's links, and sep's trippy, yet spot-on, comment pretty much sum it up. It depends on the contract you signed with your employer (if you work for someone) and the signed agreement between the contracted agency and the client.

    When you work for someone else, they'll often include a clause in their NDAs, etc. that state by agreeing to work for them you sign over your creation claims because you created them while an agent for that company. Your employer, in this situation, may give you permission to state you had a role in the project.

    Clients will sometimes state in their contracts that need to own the rights to creation and ownership outright in order to avoid future litigation messes. They may even go as far as preventing an agency from publicly displaying the work...again it comes back to the contract.

    It's not simply a matter of "copyright" because you get into claims of creation, ownership and display. For example, I may sign over my creation and ownership rights, but I have permission to say I participated in the project when I display the artwork OR I retain creation claims, but I assign ownership to the client for a specific period of time, like in perpetuity.

    So to sum it up, and my apologies for any unintended snarkiness, if due diligence is done, and you get your affairs in order through legally sound contracts, which you should before you start a project, then you shouldn't find yourself asking about copyright in a public forum. If you haven't done your due diligence, then you have to accept you're probably going to get stuck with the shit end of the stick because, more than likely, the other party has done that legwork. Treat it as a lesson learned, accept you've joined a club nearly every creative professional is a spent a little time in, and get cracking on the next opportunity with full-vetted contract in hand.

    If you've found yourself in a bind, good luck with the next steps. You might also dig this quasi-related lecture if you haven't already seen it: "2011/03 Mike Monteiro | F*ck You. Pay Me."

    • hellobotto, you're right... a good read here..... yes, we've all experiencced tvaxorcist
  • gramme0

    What hellobotto said. Something to consider about work for hire though, is that if you don't sign any sort of NDA or non-compete, they can't legally stop you from showing work you've done at that company. Sure, they own the copyright. And of course the smart thing is to ask for permission anyway, and be clear about the role you played. But if that doesn't fly and it's worth your while to burn the bridge and show the work anyway, then you're in the clear legally, despite being open to a lawsuit and eternal hatred from the employer. One has to show work to get work, and I think it's unethical for employers to hamstring a designer's ability to get work. In most cases though, it's not worth the company's time and money to take you to court.

    Regarding copyrights with clients, I don't give them away. They're not for sale. That's just my personal policy. My clients own any verbiage in a piece of visual communication that refers to their products and services; but what you see – the design concept and the way it's executed – those belong to Metagramme. I negotiate in a lot of areas, but not this one. And I don't take on work where the client would never allow the piece to be shown. Temporary NDAs are fine, even common.

    If someone does freelance work for me, I retain the copyright but welcome the free advertising that comes from them showing the work in their portfolios, online or in print. I think it's selfish, shortsighted, and unreasonable when firms try to prohibit people from showing work they've done. The only caveat would be if there was a client NDA in effect, e.g. a project which can't be publicly displayed until it goes live.

  • vaxorcist0

    Note also that if you're a developer, and you use library code like jQuery, beware that some clients legal depts have a standard contract that demands all copyright, and you CANNOT give away copyright to library code like jQuery which you didn't write or buy the rights to....

    Some clients don't get this.... Some clients demand that all library code is BSD licensed rather than GPL... google BSD vs GPL if you need to know more about this.....

  • JSK0

    99% of the time, you are providing services to a client hence they own the intellectual property rights.

    If you set it up as that you own the rights, you are licensing the property.

    No client can't own beyond services that you provided to them. There is a clause of transfer of knowledge which is hard to prove unless it is specifically dictated that certain design or code are deemed as client ownership.

    Not sure what you mean by web services.

  • vaxorcist0

    You should also be aware that Usage and Copyright are two different things. Some newbie designers don't know this.... you probably do know this, but I think it should be said again and again.

    Just because you retain copyright doesn't mean client cannot USE the as they see fit, and as you've agreed upon in a contract.... it does mean however that they can't MANGLE IT BEYOND ALL RECOGNITION without your approval.

    Many independent designers retain Copyright to their work, but allow clients almost unlimited usage. Photographers make their living on usage, I had a friend whose client used a photo of his in a major newspaper fullpage ad, in direct violation of his usage contract and he threatened to sue, got some money... lest you complain, note that that ad cost a TON of money, and the client would not have placed the ad without that photo, hence his creative product was worth much more than he was originally paid.

    I also think that many designers do waaay too much "work for hire" work, where they're digital day laborers, not getting the rights or recognition they deserve, finding their work resold by the client or ageny, repurposed by somebody's high school friend into something else,etc...

    A final note... if you "work for hire" and give away copyright, beware that your client can 1. forbid you from putting the work in your folio/website and 2. resell the work on some crowdsourcing site

  • i_monk0

    This is design, we have no rights.

    • This is true because a large majority in our profession choose to be ignorant or lazy and just give it all awayJosev
    • Clients arent the only problem.Josev
  • omg0

    I would think that work is only bounded to the company because of the symbol/ logo. The company still has to register, copyright and still obtain patents before they can legally call it theirs. Though the company would like to think that they have complete control of work created within their realm of business, thus an NDA. The moment you strip off their logo, what you see is the design which no one can patent or claim copyright. You'll have to reuse patented or copyright material within your designs in order to maintain control of a design, in which case a company cannot claim it as theirs, such as using a font, stock image, code, bits of audio or video in which the company did not pay for.

    • If you are a compensated agent of the company, you are an extension of them.hellobotto
    • And their IP claims don't stop at a logo. Because you remove a watermark, doesn't mean you can claim the image.hellobotto