Design Manifesto QBN Census
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- ********
http://www.art-omma.org/NEW/past…
Who's read it?
How many agree?
Of those who agree, are you active?
And of course, those who don't agree, tell us why?
- akrokdesign0
NSFW?
- probably because of the appearance of the phrase "butt toners"imstupeid
- It's safegoldieboy
- hahaakrokdesign
- Hey imstupeid, I'd appreciate it if you troll somewhere else. Thanks.********
- ********0
First things first design manifesto may NOT be suitable for WORK in general... but you can safely view my link from wherever you are... well maybe not from a corporate building... you may quit your job, and I'm not taking responsibility for teaching you how to creatively cook with Ramen noodles.
- (no troll) you actually can get REALLY creative with ramen noodles—rice cakes, seafood, sausage, hardboiled egg...koreans/japane... know whats upimstupeid
- egg...koreans/japane... know whats upimstupeid
- dude, read again, I said I'm not going to TEACH ANYONE HOW TO BE CREATIVE********
- What was that you were saying in the other thread... I'm difficult to understand? Check again stupid.********
- Please this is about graphic design, please go somewhere else and stop harassing me.********
- oh go fuck off. i wasn't trolling about ramen—it's a god-honest meal in a lot of countries. no need for you to be an ignorant cunt about that.imstupeid
- cunt about that.imstupeid
- akrokdesign0
design manifesto is soooooooooo design student.
- that's all you have to say?********
- why not.akrokdesign
- because you're stereotyping it********
- or maybe it is so.akrokdesign
- that's all you have to say?
- duck30
Why so serious?
- ********0
I'd say idealistic, but it's good conversation... maybe open some people up here that have never read either one.
- ********0
I think I may have read this the whole way through once... can't remember
- Try it again, it's not much of a read.********
- No, I meant serious. And I wasn't referring to the topic of this thread.nato
- Try it again, it's not much of a read.
- ********0
Such wankery. You are in the Devil's business, buy the ticket and take the ride. It's never going to change as long as the dollar speaks.
- design is the devil's business? sounds like selling insurance********
- I could have swore it was pretty fun and fulfilling ...the devil duped me hard********
- oh, the young and the meek. Pats on the head.********
- old and wise but still a slave :( .. . but wait I work myself... I must be the devil!!!!! sweet********
- so doing a poster for a green environment is devilish?********
- if it helps you sleep at night, by all means.********
- design is the devil's business? sounds like selling insurance
- Horp0
I read it, but I heard was
whine whine whine blah blah we don't want to do client stuff we want to do our own cool stuff and have that support us financially you know but without it actually equating to the kind of commercial sell out we are so obviously above moan moan blah blah blah we want to be taken seriously for doing stuff but without the stuff we do having to have anything to do with what it is the stuff we do was brought in to being to do blah blah moan moan we want to have a car, that flies, and doesn;t use any fuel, and doesn;t have any wheels moan moan, just a chorme bullet that we sit in and it glides silently and magnificently over everybody's heads moan moan we don't want all the oily bits and horrible rubber and the cost and the imperfection moan moan blah blah
- My manifesto:Horp
- Fuck off.Horp
- If you don't like it, get the fuck out of it.
I did. Its not hard. Whiney cunts.Horp - hah, so true.Josev
- Apologies for the appalling typing in my rant over there by the way.Horp
- it was hard to follow... not sure who the "fuck off" is aimed at... everybody?********
- No SF, he's 'manifesto' is 'fuck off'goldieboy
- Horp0
"I think I may have read this the whole way through once... can't remember"
- RandYou did Rand. I specifically recall you asking me to hold it up to the little glass window in your iron lung a few months ago.
- I wasn't getting much oxygen********
- Sorry, I was stood on the pipe. Didn't realise until you went mauve.Horp
- I wasn't getting much oxygen
- utopian0
Has anyone read Brett Bash's manifesto lately?
- no I havn't read it yet but I did copy/paste it into my site********
- hahaakrokdesign
- no I havn't read it yet but I did copy/paste it into my site
- ********0
Not too many people have read it...
- Josev0
I've read it.
There are good discussions on it at Design Observer and Under Consideration. I'm not sure I know what to think about it. I used to believe it was elitist (Michael Beirut made that comment about it, I believe). I think there should be more thought going into what we do, and the work we choose to do, but it's not 1964 anymore. We live in a very different time, with different tools, and different demands. How many more designers are there now? I dont have a solution.
- Josev0
Here are some good quotes on the manifesto from the Design Observer and Creative review:
Michael Beirut: "That's very much at the heart of it. When I first read First Things First [the 1964 manifesto calling on designers to use their skills for more worthy pursuits, which was reissued in 1999], I was reminded of when sometimes, when a crime's committed, people will confess to it even though they didn't do it because they're dying for the attention. Part of FTF sort of reminded me of that - designers are so eager to think they are manipulating the whole world and they're dying to confess. It's very empowering to think that you can manipulate the whole world but speaking as a working designer there aren't too many moments in the day when I think that I possess that power."
Michael Beirut: "The main message of FTF was that designers should think about what they're doing, and I think there's much evidence that the level of discussion of all kinds has been transformed because of it. If I had a big complaint I would say that there is an alternate reading of FTF where it where it seems to suggest that the core of society - the mass market - be abandoned by designers in favour of the frills. What I dislike is the idea that either you can sell out or you can be marginalised and there's nothing in between: you can either do cute things that no one will notice and will have no effect on the world or you can sell out and put out shit that will be reproduced in the billions and end up in every landfill on earth. There's got to be some route in between which will be found by smart people who are engaged with larger issues in the world. In New York after 9/ll a lot of people were thinking what can I do as a graphic designer to help? I hate to say it but posters weren't really the answer at that time: a cool T-shirt wasn't going to ameliorate pain or address the root causes of that event. There is a way for designers to get involved but it requires engagement with much bigger ideas in the world and not to think that the limit of your scope is to figure out how you make the T-shirt. I am concerned by our eagerness to retreat to the margins where we can work undisturbed - and unnoticed."
- ********0
There honestly isn't much to read there...it's pretty short. It is interesting that this sentiment was around way back then.
However, I can't say I agree with the idea though. I've never been conflicted in this way exactly because my work tends to focus more on building apps and interactive media rather than advertising per se.
But at the end of the day, taking on a job from "good businesses" rather than consumerist ones isn't going to solve much is it...there will always be a market for selling frivilous things to consumers as long as there's money in it. And some agency will jump in to fill that void if you don't. Nor can the design industry as a whole support itself solely on the work of health food coops and environmental companies. And so in my view, it's rather naive of some small group of designers to think that they personally have so much sway over things that they can change the world just by firing their existing clients.
Moreover, I'd suggest that the advertising side of things is simply not where any big societal change is going to happen. Its going to take innovations in science, innovations in product design and technology, changes in markets and government. Hoping for it to happen when the ad campaign rolls out is acting very late in the process.
- ********0
Why do you think that it's interesting that is was around 'way back then'?
- I just didn't think of anti-consumerism being as all that prevalent within the commercial design world 50 years ago********
- Hey brother, it was flower power then man, total anti-establishment, comsumerism, etc********
- Right...but how much did that influence Madison Avenue?********
- Maybe part of it is that you didnt see the range of work for artistic purposes as you do now********
- I just didn't think of anti-consumerism being as all that prevalent within the commercial design world 50 years ago
- ********0
Josev, thanks for posting Beirut's feelings towards FTF.
I posted this on QBN to find out what YOU think, what "QBNites" think. Speak for yourself and lay it on us my man.
- I agree with him. I'm surprised he feels this way because he's a big name.Josev
- I'm not sure I follow.********
- vaxorcist0
Ok.. in all honesty.... this is not such a crazy argument in my world anymore... it was a bit in the early 90's.... I knew people who thought Ralph Nader was a sellout....
I used to teach in 2 art schools.... and I read and re-read the Manifesto in various versions.... over time, and as student loans got larger, students took it less stridently, and/or at least less either/or like in their thinking... this was refreshing to me, and/or it seems design student culture grew up a bit...
i.e. you DON'T have to be a broke-ass ethically pure designer doing ads for organic dance troupes vs a sell-out doing credit card promo junk mail... there really is not just an in-between, but probably a third way....
It does seem that Gen Y is less ideological-warfare oriented than some of the early Gen X'ers I knew in art school, including me..
I bring up the Portlandia thing not as a joke, but as a semi-joke, showing the lifestyle that would be emulated by many of the people I went to school with.... a life that's not quite possible for anyone with a huge student loan.... unless they're willing to default and live off-grid for a while...
- I'll admit it, the Carson thing also got me back to the PTSD of 90's art school ideological warfare...vaxorcist
- And I probably reverted to my 18 year old punk-ass self...strange how growing up feels...vaxorcist
- Portlandia. don't know it. I assume FTF is thinking beyond "broke-ass ethically pure designer doing ads for organic dance troupes"********