From PT Freelance to FT Employee?
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- duckseason
So the job that I have been freelancing with PT, as an in-house designer, over the past 6 months or so just sent me an email offering a FT position with them. All in all I have been with this company for over a year - from interning, to seasonal work, to what I am currently doing, PT design.
If I were to accept, this would be my first FT design position. Upon reading the letter some financial concerns arose and I'm seeking some advice from those who have been in a similar position.
The amount they are offering is less than what they currently pay me - I understand, going from freelance to an actual employee, this is fairly typical once you bring benefits etc onto the table; however, the amount they are offering me is uncomfortably low (I've made more, annually, working retail).
I feel like I deserve not only more than what they are offering, but more than what I am currently making. The amount of work and responsibility that I have taken on since initially signing on as a freelancer has grown quite a bit. I was brought on to do work strictly for the company's website. This has since expanded to doing everything from the same web work, to interactive, to print for multiple departments.
I guess I'm just wondering if I am out of place for thinking I should ask for/deserve more. If not, since they have already laid an offer down, how do I go about bringing up the subject of asking/negotiating for more? Should I just respond to the email from the woman in HR, expressing my financial concerns?
Again, any advice is appreciated.
- ETM0
Without specifics, what are the percentage differences in wage so we can at least let you know if what they are offering with benefits is somewhat typical. Also, how good are the benefits themselves and will you, yourself benefit (pun intended) from having them vs. making a freelance wage and paying for things yourself?
- nb0
"I feel like I deserve not only more than what they are offering, but more than what I am currently making. The amount of work and responsibility that I have taken on since initially signing on as a freelancer has grown quite a bit. I was brought on to do work strictly for the company's website. This has since expanded to doing everything from the same web work, to interactive, to print for multiple departments."
^ This holds your answer right here.
You're not out of place at all. Seems like you've given it some thought, and you feel you deserve more. Sounds to me like you deserve it.
All you need to do now is convince your boss that you're worth more. Be prepared. Make a mental list of all the points to make your case, both strong and weak, and memorize them. Try to imagine every possible argument they could come up with, no matter how unlikely, and come up with a counter-argument.
Psyche yourself up and get ready for the meeting with your boss. Pick an exact time and date to meet him/her/them but don't tell them when you plan to meet. You want to catch them off guard, it'll help your case. Best bet is to pop your head in their office with the ol' "Got a minute to talk about that offer?"
Also, decide on the salary that you want. Try to guess the maximum they'd pay you, then add a lot. Start high. There will always be room to negotiate down. In my experience, you won't need to negotiate if your original case is strong. Don't forget to prepare for arguments. A common one is "we can't pay you that, it's more than so-and-so makes." There's always a counter-argument.
- inteliboy0
Sounds like a bad deal.
I just went from PT to FT, and now making a lot less money, though made this sacrifice solely due to that this FT gig is hard to come by (breaking into a hard industry - film). If was design def wouldn't want to downgrade pay.
- akrokdesign0
that's a tricky one. i went from freelance to full-time. due to i knew thy where going to fill the position. Which would mean, no need for "that freelancer to drop in". also I liked the people, etc.
- desmo0
It all depends on your current outlook of your career.
Whats more important to you right now?
Are you just looking to make some cash or get the experience?
If you want the experience, accept the FT gig and stick it out for 2 years or so then move on to another agency to build your rep and portfolio.
If not, continue to freelance, and just cash in. Achieving both is pretty hard to get if you are just starting out.
- monNom0
I gather this client is in a non-design industry? If so, that's the worst of both worlds, and you should kindly decline and take a shit-paying job at a design firm of some sort.
Nothing wrong with working for peanuts, as long as you're learning good skills at the same time, pretty soon you'll be worth a lot more. IMO you won't get nearly the level of education working on your own that you would in a junior design position at a busy design studio.
- babaganush0
Say you'd be more comfortable freelancing and look around to get the fuck out of there...you will never get recognition for your hard work. The fact that they see you as a cost that could be reduced shows that they are only looking to exploit you and save cash.
- that's so pessimistic. I think they want to keep him as an asset.doublespaced
- It's not pessimistic at all. It's about self respect. The signs are there. Standing ground is bestbabaganush
- doublespaced0
Tax-wise it might balance out.
- duckseason0
To answer previous questions, It'd be about a 17% decrease in pay. Benefits are pretty standard - health and 401k after 3 and 6 months respectively.
Not a job directy in the design field - in house designer for a company in the film/entertainment industry.
Appreciate the responses thus far.
- when you say retail, do you mean selling on the floor of John Varvatos or something?doublespaced
- Something like that.duckseason
- d_rek0
In all honesty it seems like they're trying to buy you up on the cheap. I think you're in a good position to bargain here. You at least owe it to yourself to try to get them to commit to something better financially.
- TenaciousG0
If a drop of just 17% takes you below a retail salary, they must not have been paying you much before now. Which means at the very least, ask for what you had been making. If they really want to keep you, and it sounds like they do, they shouldn't lowball you.
- d_rek0
The smart thing to do would be your homework.
Go on to designsalaries.org and see if what they're offering is competitive with regional salaries. This should be the first thing you do. Also let them know you've done your homework.
Second, you can tell them what percentage you'll be taking a hit personally and also tell them that the math doesn't add up. It seems odd and wrong that they would offer you much, much less than what they're currently offering you, freelance or not.
- dMullins0
Not sure why everyone is being all "strategic" here.
This is standard HR politicking. They low-ball, and you react. Sounds like they just want to save the most they can on your services. Respond with your terms, and work out an agreement.
- duckseason0
I'm not making a load of money as it stands - definitely could/should have asked for more back when first coming on (live and learn); however, I'm comfortable with what I'm currently making, and I enjoy what I'm doing so I don't mind.
Agree with what most have said - It wont hurt to let them know what I'm thinking and to at least try. Better than taking the offer and being bitter or not testing the waters at all.
- fyoucher10
IMO, I'd just decline and say that you're currently looking to make a higher salary AND move up in your career, and then state what you actually want (and go on the higher side, much higher). Then leave it at that. But have confidence in yourself at the same time. If they don't hire you, go find a gig at another studio. You're in NYC!!! Kinda sounds like you're in your comfort zone. This place pays the bills and you like what you do there. There's probably a million other places that will offer the same thing or better. Sounds like they're trying to get you for cheap.
- +1hellojeehae
- NOTE: DO NOT get too comfortable in ANY fulltime gig,... sudden layoffs happenvaxorcist
- Good points.duckseason
- vaxorcist0
hmmm.....
I've been in this position and usually regretted it when I went full-time, except at the first agency I was at.
First Agency - I had no idea how lucky I was, they didn't pay much but they were creative-driven, not account-driven, they FIRED clients who wanted bigger logos, lots of people went on to form their own agencies after this place got bought and we all left....
Second Agency: They paid me less than I was freelancing for, but gave me full benefits and I negotiated so it was about the same after taxes.... cool for a while, but I felt like a domestic animal who's been neutered after a while, as a freelancer I could speak my mind in meetings, as a fulltimer I had to worry about offending, and the agency was far too much trying to please client whims
Note that working retails is NOT that bad for a serious designer who wants to freelance, it may not seem rock-star-esque on a resume, but you learn HOW TO SELL, which is a skill that will help you more in a freelance life than you can ever imagine....
I now judge agencies by whether it seems their account staff knows HOW TO SELL or whether they just seem to think HOW TO ASS-KISS is how to sell.... that's how I choose who to freelance for....