Will China really take over?
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- drgz0
- TheBlueOne0
I agree with drgz, China is an illusion built on a multitude of lies (that's not saying the US house of cards financial crony capitalism isn't either..)
But how soon do people forget that modern "China" is held together by a totalitarian, coercive state power through systemic violence, and has a millenia's worth of history of being a fragmented, internecine warfare filled geographical region.
e.g. Villagers in Minhou county, Fujian Province, fight against forced demolition.
- georgesIII0
Responding to TBO's message,
"So you haven't seen what China has been doing in Africa then?"I believe if you ask any african if he wants to take a chance with the new chinese power or the old occidental one,
they'll give a chance to the new one,
look what 500 years of brutality and resource stealing led us,
most of big corporation are in fact european, the puppet governments are put there to give the sensation to western crowd that democracy does exist in africa but it doesn't,
when a president decides he wants to take care of his country they take him out (or try to, like what happened in my country),
African minerals have never been so profitable (google mine in congo) yet the african population have never been poorer...Give china a chance, they'll soon have more problem controlling their own population, I don't see them trying to do the same with Sub-saharan africans
- kingkong0
Agree with georgesIII, The UK subjugated about a billion people, renamed Zimbabwe after Cecil Rodes, ran the slave trade, amoungst other special moments. We did an awful lot of good, but we abused the 'superpower' position in so many ways.
I suppose we have had it pretty good for 500 years, building our wealth on the backs of the worlds poor, from sugar in Brazil to spice from India, to diamonds in Africa to oil in the middle east. It was going to end sometime, just happens to be happening on our watch.
So there is definitely a rebalancing going on. I work in a big ad firm and so much of what we do is now heading eastwards from Europe.
I've spent a lot of time in China (and I'd throw in India into that mix too) and just on a sheer numbers game they'll take over. Once they figure out innovation they'll run the show. The main issue will be keeping a lid on disorder. My impression is that about 5% of the population is benefiting, the rest seem to be poor as hell. Thats a time bomb for sure.
Also China are only doing what Japan did, copy, copy, copy then innovate.
- ntslide0
Over here now, been here many times and I work closely with many Chinese factories. I do find it interesting that at least half of my factories (some vertical) are owned by Koreans or Taiwanese businesspeople. I'm also amazed at the level of understanding many of my factory owners possess. China is infinitely more complicated than anyone gives them credit for.
I think sometimes as a westerner I seek to impose the values and urgency for change that is capable in the US. Simply, we don't like something and we speak up about it and expect a change. What we forget is that China isn't capable of making the changes we think it needs.
This is my opinion from being here so if I'm misguided I apologize...
China does cannot exist (and this should be appropriate to the company here) without the premium of innovation and design/marketing that are second nature to US, Europe, Aus etc. I work very closely with entire factories on complex developments and they simply could not do the job without myself and my design group. As I see it, the design and direction are what keep the relationship going... I have a constant need to innovate and they have a constant need to produce...
Short answer from me, no China will not take over... buy all the debt in the world, we'll just buy it back for cheaper (look up Japanese real estate investment back when they were 'taking over') a few years later...
- mydo0
There seems to be far too much attention in this thread to the communist state and the poor people at the bottom. don't forget the hundreds of millions of middle classes, and hundreds of thousands of millionaires, whom, like the west wield a lot of power.
Look further than the media spin, China's government is trying really hard to find a political system which is fair for everyone, environmentally friendly, uncorrupted and stable.
Middle classes just want good education for their children,
Millionaires want yachts not world domination.Don't believe the hype. What is happening here is far less bloody than our own industrialisation. And far more complex, as we didn't have CNN bitching about our cotton mills and beat downs.
don't buy Chinese? don't buy American? don't buy African? don't buy things made my humans? This government didn't set up the factory, your government didn't design and order the product, it's all people like you and me.
- less bloody because the chickens haven't come home to roost yet. they will.TheBlueOne
- Please give me % of china's middle class to it's poor, and it's geographical locationTheBlueOne
- And you;re using the China's Ruling Class's spin....TheBlueOne
- I don't get the critique - they have brought millions of people out of povertyukit
- At least the trendlines are pointing upward, as opposed to say in the US, right? :Pukit
- well, that is a valid point...TheBlueOne
- ukit0
I agree with mydo, I think there is a little bit of denial going on in the Western world. How do any of the things drgs mentioned make China, a myth or an illusion?
Hows this for a myth - sometime within the next decade or so China will officially surpass U.S. as the #1 economic power. That will be an interesting moment to watch.
- clearThoughts0
Yeah, I have absolutely no doubt about China becoming the biggest power in the world.
But where the f*ck will we stand as creatives?
Are we going to have to lower our rates?
- clearThoughts0
中国是怎么就打算统治QBN
- mydo0
^ if we're just talking numbers, i think china will probably overtake the US in a few months won't it?
- I guess it depends what metric you use
http://www.marketwat…ukit
- I guess it depends what metric you use
- ETM0
China has problems in that they have no true middle class yet and they are at the whim of the western world to buy their stuff, so they have little self sufficiency. The other side of that sword, however, is that a middle class will mean workers will want more, and demand more from employers, driving up costs of production with the long term potential of making them less favorable for manufacturing. That will perpetuate the cycle and opening up an opportunity for yet another developing country or region to join the sweat shop regime.
That is one thing the west still has, in theory, is the ability to both manufacture and consume said goods . If we didn't all want 3 TVs for cheap and disposable products we replace every year, we might still be manufacturing a lot more here.
- I guess this also relates to drgz post above as well.ETM
- Beeswax0
they are cheap until they get rich.
- seed0
What does it say about our ecomony when goods have to be brought in from overseas in order to be affordable? Is it a way to avoid feeling the true impact of inflation?
- you only just noticed?ephix
- I was hoping someone with more economic knowledge could elaborate.seed
- i don't recall any price changes. i believe the corporations are pocketing all the profits. cuz i dun see anyjetSkii
- ok, you, i mean your people want cheaper shit to buy. so your companies find cheaper ways. they find china. they build things cheap to a certain qualityephix
- things cheap to a certain quality. just like your phone support goes to india. except thats a much poorer quality.ephix
- TheBlueOne0
..and there's been no mention of the incredible massive corruption that underlies the entire economic system there. I tried to source some fabric there a few years back for my old business. It was a fucking nightmare dealing with pay this guy, pay this guy, fuck that.. ended up doing business in Brazil. No less corrupt, but they don't play the inscrutable, holier than thou card like they do in China while they rip you off...
- 74LEO0
The only reason china is such a capitalist force is because our governments allows them to be. We dont need a single thing they make..most of what they import to use we can make here. we are the only country that allows vested foreign interests to exploit out natural resources export them for refinement and production then re import to us at a profit.
haah haah our government is a joke. so you all should write your congressmen and women!
eol...
- e-pill0
i just got off the phone with my co-worker who is in GZ {guangzhou}
is saying none of the 6 factories we have chosen are willing to tackle 1 of my designs, saying it is too complicated for them..but i wonder.. will they just say that to take my design and produce it under a different brand or label or not even market it outside of Mainland China itself??
scary times to be Batesoled when you feed them the work..
i miss my own sample room..
control is key.
- ukit0
The world by population
- jetSkii0
The only scare I have is having to speak and live in a country where I'd be forced to speak another language. Otherwise, I could definitely rock with more proper Asian girls and Dim Sum in this country.