Biolab Disaster
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- Continuity0
Great quote, but it does absolutely nothing to support your assertion that mobile is going to toast the web.
Also - to use the same examples from the quote - things like WoW and iTunes still require a desktop or laptop computer. And that's just two apps, never mind the endless gaggle of other ones.
- Apart from the "less than a quarter" bit?moth
- I see mobile as a web platform mentioned nowhere in this quote.Continuity
- moth0
^
From Wired:
"The Web is, after all, just one of many applications that exist on the Internet, which uses the IP and TCP protocols to move packets around. This architecture — not the specific applications built on top of it — is the revolution. Today the content you see in your browser — largely HTML data delivered via the http protocol on port 80 — accounts for less than a quarter of the traffic on the Internet ... and it’s shrinking. The applications that account for more of the Internet’s traffic include peer-to-peer file transfers, email, company VPNs, the machine-to-machine communications of APIs, Skype calls, World of Warcraft and other online games, Xbox Live, iTunes, voice-over-IP phones, iChat, and Netflix movie streaming. Many of the newer Net applications are closed, often proprietary, networks."
- Continuity0
'... the mobile/app market, which is set to obliterate the web as we know it.'
Obliterate? Let's not exaggerate ...
- moth0
So what is flash doing that's new then Boz? I see everything else evolving around me, but not that.
What's happening to cease it inevitable slow demise? AIR failed. It's got no footing in the mobile/app market, which is set to obliterate the web as we know it.
Smells like death to me.
- You see things "evolving" around because Flash can do all of those things for a while now.Boz
- and Flash has evolved immensely from Flash 8. You don't see it because your attention is probably on something else.Boz
- something else, or you acknowledge progress only on things you consider relevant.Boz
- And AIR failed :) AIR is going to be the major force in mobile market being available on all platforms. You can't say it failed because it hasn't even started.Boz
- because it hasn't even started. AIR for Android, the improved AIR for iPhone/iPad is coming end of this year.Boz
- Continuity0
I still think you guys are beating a dead horse. Flash won't kill anything, and neither will HTML, no matter which version. Each will evolve and complement the other, and a good designer or developer will end up choosing the right tool for the job.
- I only posted a link to a game, without even mentioning Flashernexbcn
- Yeah, I know, but it ended up right back to Flash v HTML5 thing again.Continuity
- simply acknowledging HTML 5 is akin to slapping a Flash dev in the face with your penisAncillary
- Charming mental picture, that. >_<Continuity
- Ancillary0
Hey I made this game in HTML 5 to say thank you to this agency I worked at for a bit:
- ernexbcn0
Hello and good morning.
I agree that the personal attack against Boz website wasn't necessary and I apologize.
But you guys started to get insightful after that, not before. Before you just spewed FUD against the author and the game based on some silly remarks and without any reasoning.
Like ukit said, we need experiments like these to push browsers forward and keep improving rendering speed and overall support of HTML5. There's also some people doing high profile works/experiments like Arcade Fire "The Wilderness Downtown", we need more of that too.
There's good merit in all of these things, and that is they are being done in open standards that all the vendors are going to support. Flash isn't a open standard.
- well, he did say some really really ignorant things and blamed the code on his computer crashmonospaced
- Pupsipu0
Jesus Boz look at those huge walls of text, how much time do we waste arguing about this shit? Not enough!
The goal of Flixel and this game is not to have amazing graphics, it's to have well crafted graphics, to fit into the retro style. Flash's uber performance doesn't apply here, some Flixel games do not run as smoothly as others. Yes, games that could run in the 1980's do not run smoothly in Flash in 2010! We're not coding in assembler and Flash isn't optimized for those use cases.
As I've said before on YH!, nowhere in the HTML5 spec do they say they want to be compatible with Adobe's toolkit by offering all the features of Flash. HTML5 does not share your priorities and may never be appropriate for the work Flashers like you are doing.
But it is already good enough for some people. Notice this guy got a large enough audience, despite IE being behind, and riding on the HTML5 hype wagon helped him get it.
Can Flash do that? No because it's hated.
Yes, he is reinventing the wheel from what Flixel was doing for a year. Flash games were re-inventions of Java games which were re-inventions of C games etc.. Same old shit made with new toys.
The priorities of these news toys are different from the old toys. HTML5 has "threading" ready. Flash does not. So for certain people Flash is not good enough. When will Flash get threading, considering Adobe is busy making mobile versions? 2012? Is there even a schedule? No there isn't and that's going to lose them developers.
Typed arrays for WebGL allow you to do calculations stupid fast. When will the typed numbers in AS3 give that performance? So far Adobe recommends to use PixelBender, how convenient.
I'm just underlining that your Flash is ahead on all fronts while HTML5 is in the dust is a biased assessment. Unsurprisingly Flash is ahead on all the fronts that you care about. That's one of those chicken or egg riddles.
- Well I don't disagree with anything you have posted there.Boz
- ukit0
BTW, if you want to see something that absolutely surpasses Flash in capability, try this...
1) Download the nightly build of Webkit here: http://nightly.webkit.org/
2) Open the terminal, and type this:
defaults write com.apple.Safari WebKitWebGLEnabled -bool YES3) Start up the browser
4) Check these out:
http://www.iquilezles.org/apps/s…
http://blog.tojicode.com/2010/08…etc...
So this stuff is working in the nightly builds which means it is not deployed yet, but is coming soon.
- This is WebGL and where things are headed w/ CANVASukit
- Dude.. do you understand how long before this super geek code and nightly builds and all that stuff gets ready for professional production and everyday workflow? We are not even close.Boz
- professional production and everyday workflow? We are not even close.Boz
- My guess would be working in modern browsers by next year at the latestukit
- Pixter0
Now any 8-bit looking game is super cool just because it's made in html5?
- fyoucher10
Why doesn't this work on my iPhone 3GS?
- ukit0
BTW, the way I understand it...we will not have to wait until after 2022 for additional functionality either. Hickson has said stuff to the effect that there will not be an "HTML6" in the near future and that from here on out, we'll see a process of rolling updates, in addition to the proposed HTML5 functionality. So that is a good thing I think:)
I need to check on where WebGL is at...but I know it's coming fairly soon because it works in the nightly builds of most browsers.
- instrmntl0
It's kind of addictive. I had to close it.
- ukit0
Boz -
Well OK fine bro but you guys were the ones that reacted in that way, spewing negativism at some guys' efforts, which all considered are pretty cool. After all, with a little bit of effort anyone can hack together a Flash game, it's been done many times, but to try to do something that hasn't yet been achieved...well personally I admire that quite a bit.
Regarding the HTML5 timeline, that's a common bit of disinfo/ misunderstanding that is out there. First of all, the portions of the spec that we are concerned with as designers - primarily CANVAS and VIDEO as well as things such as semantic layout tags - are done. They have already been written and will not change at this point.
The part that is under way, and the only reason widespread use isn't yet feasible, is browser implementation. It's in the hands of Microsoft, Google, Apple and Mozilla, rather than the standards committee.
2012 will be when the entire HTML5 spec is ready, including more behind the scenes stuff such as microdata, local storage, web workers, and so on which they are currently putting the finishing touches on. So all the "proposed features" as you say will be finalized at that point.
2012 - 2022 is the "test suite." This means they go through and exhaustively test the spec in a few major browsers in essentially every possible scenario, making possibly minor tweaks along the way. However, no new features of the HTML5 spec will be introduced and no big changes will likely happen. It's more like the process of maintaining an operating system after its been released than continuing to write one.
- Yep.. and Canvas and Video will not change or give us anything mindblowing. Canvas doesn't even support 3D. They said they might consider adding 3D later but it's all in the air.Boz
- Uh...nor does Flash really support it yet!!:)ukit
- said they might consider adding 3D later but it's all in the air. Btw, all those cool things like WebGL, storage and all this good stuff is coming later. And I'm not talking IDEs, or cool 3rd party libraries.. All this will come probably much later. So realistically it is 5-10 years.. We will probably start seeing some tools and other stuff happening by 2012 but realitically to really build kick ass stuff in professional manner it will probably be 2015-2016. And I'm being optimistic.Boz
- But WebGL is coming...and not in 5 years. I'm sure you've seen the demosukit
- Flash does support 3D and the real 3d is coming in October. They announced it. So we'll see.Boz
- Btw, all those cool things like WebGL, storage and all this good stuff is coming later. And I'm not talking IDEs, or cool 3rd party libraries.. All this will come probably much later. So realistically it is 5-10 years.. We will probably start seeing some tools and other stuff happening by 2012 but realitically to really build kick ass stuff in professional manner it will probably be 2015-2016. And I'm being optimistic.Boz
- WebGL is not part of HTML5 BTW, its on a separate track and isnt subject to the timeline at allukit
- 3rd party libraries.. All this will come probably much later. So realistically it is 5-10 years.. We will probably start seeing some tools and other stuff happening by 2012 but realitically to really build kick ass stuff in professional manner it will probably be 2015-2016. And I'm being optimistic.Boz
- WebGL is a part of HTML5. It's context of the canvas HTML element that provides a 3D graphics API.Boz
- It's actually not...it might get referred to as part of it but it's not part of the HTML5 spec they are delivering in 2012ukit
- You know what is part of HTML5 because it's on this page
http://dev.w3.org/ht…ukit - WebGL has its own spec, which is here
https://cvs.khronos.…ukit
- cannonball19780
BAAAaaaack to the game...
I was hoping for some level ups and story. Didn't get any of that. Maybe even a freaking boss fight.
- Boz0
@ukit..
Not at all.. I like seeing HTML5 demos and stuff people sweat to kind of make. It's cool to see that dedication. I just really hate this immediate reaction to Flash is dead. That's all.
Not really having anything personal against HTML5 and people posting ;)
- SteveJobs0
"How about folks learn to argue w/out silly personal attacks like posting people's personal work/pages merely because they strongly disagree w/someone's opinion."
this.
i've largely removed myself from these futile debates mostly because of the amateur knowledge and infantile behavior associted with them. too many of the contributors these days are just a bunch of techy fan boys riding the jock straps of those out there actually pushing the technology, reporting back with such pompous attitudes, and matter of fact speeches on what the technology is accomplishing and how the opposing technology is so irrelevant, and then getting their panties in a twist when someone from the the opposing camp rightfully defends their own or scoffs at these achievements.
granted, this is the nature of the internet. there will always be bored people who need something arbitrary to obsess over rather than getting out there and actually contibuting to the cause they embrace so unconditionally. i'm sure those that are leading the charge are gracious for your unwavering support out there in the internet forum trenches and would glady thank you... if they weren't so busy actually doing something productive.
and these statements aren't necessarily directed toward any individual(s) here, as these never-ending battles are taking place all over the web every day.
- ukit0
No...no...it won't. That's the kind of misinfo I am talking about Boz:)
- PonyBoy0
I'll be dead before 2022
- i searched ponyboy... this came up
http://www.madknight…CALLES - yeah... in thinking I was paying homage to S.E. Hinton - I inadvertently showed how fucked up I am :)PonyBoy
- i searched ponyboy... this came up
