CMYK Black vs. 100% K
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- freshdude
I'm in school and learning about printing.
Is there a difference in cost with a printer for diff blacks? Is this obvious? Is it a different process?
- mydo0
the answer here seems too obvious for me to risk being wrong.
- freshdude0
Is it 4x the price?
- Josev0
not four times the price (well...maybe). Pantone black is not going to be different than 100% K unless you use one of those special blacks and have solid areas. What are you trying to achieve, why are you asking this?
- not true, a Pantone black can be much richer than 100K.inkpink
- It's also not as neutral in color for halftones and tints. Can take on a yellow cast whereas the process black is cooler.Josev
- So technically you're correct, but it would be nice to know what the person is trying to achieve before advising.Josev
- sephil0
It might depend the printer.
100% K need only one pass, but 100% K alone doesn't produce a nice 'deep' black so a Pantone might be recommended make it a bit more of an hassle (prepare and clean up an print just for your run)
CYMK need 4 pass, so technically it should be more expansive. But nowadays printer almost do only CYMK so they can process everything on same printer non-stop making it cheaper.
However sometime printer have also a only black printer also setup, so it's make it easy and fast to do only black also.
- freshdude0
Thanks. I'm just looking for a rich black thats as cheap as possible.
- inkpink0
1 or 2 color spot jobs (pantone inks) are generally cheaper than CMYK... unless its a gang/bulk press.
a pantone black is going to be richer than just printing 100K.
but assuming there's other color in your design and you're printing process inks, use a CMYK black. search qbn "rich black" for many debates over the best % formula.
i like 40,20,20,100
- Cosmodrome0
K is the black in CMYK... aka process black. It's the most standard ink out there, and subsequently the cheapest - though I seriously doubt a printer would charge you more for requesting a Pantone black. But judging by your cost effective approach, you'll probably be using cheap stock and wouldn't notice the difference anyway.
So really... you want the black to show up richer on a single color run, try spending a little more on the stock, and definitely do not choose uncoated paper.
- we charge more for pantone black. the biggest factor that we've come across is the substraight, not the ink
bjladams
- we charge more for pantone black. the biggest factor that we've come across is the substraight, not the ink
- luckyorphan0
Odds are, you won't see significant cost savings by choosing process 100% black vs. 4-color black. And in the end, your black will print richer and keep up with the other color on the page.
The only time when process black is advantageous is if you are printing black text without much color near it on the page. Don't get me wrong—that is a cost savings, but make sure your job requires that kind of savings before approaching it.
- I don't ever make black text a 4-color black unless it's quite large, like in a header or such.duckofrubber
- WhiteFace0
Can't you add a small amount of Cyan to 100% K to make it more rich? Like 10-15% ??
- jimbojones0
Is there a difference in cost with a printer for diff blacks?
-no
Is this obvious?
-yes
Is it a different process?
-no
- d_rek0
The Y of the CMYK is your black ink and for 4-color printing. While it's very typical when running a 4-color job to simply make black elements a 100% K (type, solid color fields, etc) there are subtle–and sometimes drastic–differences from 100% K, a 'Rich' Black and a black Pantone Spot Ink.
100% K will, depending on your printer and the type of paper you're running on, be acceptable for color that requires black. Keep in mind 100% K will in some cases appear 'softer' on an uncoated sheet because the paper will absorb more ink and will appear 'darker' on a coated sheet because the paper will hold the ink on the surface of the sheet better.
A 'Rich' black is when you add percentages of Cyan, Magenta or Yellow (CMY) to 100% black to make the black appear 'deeper'. However, this varies by printer and each should be able to give you values for printing a rich black. However, because you're adding multiple inks that need to be laid over an area along with the black you had better have some confidence in your printer. Just remember, a sheet that goes through 4-CP has ink that is laid down on it 4-times and registration is an approximation, not a science. Best not to do rich blacks for small text and objects for this reason.
A black Pantone Spot Ink, like Black C, is used the same way you would any spot ink and you should consult your color books to get an idea of how the color will look on an uncoated/coated sheet. Also, if you're spec'ing spot inks that will be converted to 4CP make sure you use your solid-to-process color book so you get a good idea how the color will convert.
Now, to answer your question: Is it any more/less expensive? Well, that largely depends on the job. In theory a pantone spot ink + 1 other color - say 100% K - would be cheaper than 4CP because you're only technically using 2-inks. However, this may require more setup from the printer and the job might be just as much as a typical 4CP job.
But as others have said, there is a lot of variation in the way printers run their jobs these days. The best thing to do is to befriend a printer and ask them lots and lots of questions. And don't be embarassed - you're young and learning. Get while the gettins good!
- Happy MotherFuckers Day!d_rek
- God i really told him Y was Black. Sorry. Y is most definitely Yellow. K is Black.d_rek
- lolhorton
- Haha I was gonna say!monospaced
- haha.YLACKakrok
- dnoobie0
build your own black ( c@30, m@30, y@30 and black at 100%) Then print digital.
- underlow0
I used to work at a small print shop, and I know how confusing the color process can be unless you've dealt with it a lot.
So there's two different printing processes that most shops use: offset and digital. Digital prints use CMYK process color and lay all those inks down in the single pass, much like your printer at home. This recudes any sort of registration problems where colors might look "fuzzy." Offset printing is done mechanically, laying the ink down in (up to) four passes. If the pressman is feeling a little bit drunk that day, things might not line up and you'll get bad prints.
For cost effectiveness, it really depends on how much you're printing. Digital printers have a "per click" charge that stays constant and doesn't require setting up plates for four different inks, so it can be cheaper for shorter (<5000) print runs. If you're going more than that, shoot for offset, where the cost-per-thousand diminishes the more you have printed.
Now for blacks, you want to print rich black (offset or digital) for any blacks in a photographic image. Standard black is FINE for text and solid black parts. If you're printing, say, a letterhead, you might find it more cost-effective to print offset with black and a couple of other spot Pantone colors in larger quantities.
Of course, your results may vary. :)