HTML5 Stuff
- Started
- Last post
- 68 Responses
- vitamins0
So all this jazz was done with HTML5, CSS and JS, nothing else?
- ukit0
Yup, this jazz was done in HTML5, that's why I titled the thread
- vitamins0
I wonder if HTML5 is hard to learn. Looks like it will give flash a run for it's money.
- HTML5 is a collection of modular technologies - it's wrong to think of it as a whole, imo.********
- Aside from CSS and JS, is there something else involved? Java?vitamins
- nope .. it's all native in the browser afaik.********
- ah, coolvitamins
- JS would be the big thing to learn for a lot of thisukit
- it would be a must. imagine what you have to learn to do a simple banner. ill stick with my general flash knowledge********
- if you really must, you can use google web toolkit, code in java, and it'll precompile it to jskpl
- HTML5 is a collection of modular technologies - it's wrong to think of it as a whole, imo.
- Pixter0
Is html5 a programming language?
- SteveJobs0
i'm still a bit skeptical about how adobe's going to provide an export to html5. there still a lot of stuff that as3/flash can do that i'm unable to do in canvas.
text is a good example here. the only measurable metric data here is width. there doesn't seem to be any way to create wrappable text (that i've found so far), much less any way to set the spacing between characters, etc. (like flash or css would provide).
also, things like getImageData or createImageData are not fully implemented for all browsers (i've only tested ff3 and ie7), so off-screen buffering techniques will have to wait.
these are just a couple examples of what i've come accross while trying to extend canvas into a bigger library of drawing utils.
not knocking html5, just anxious to be able to see a more mature version AND be able to use it accross browsers.
also, it's pretty slow. trying to draw a couple hundred rectangles in a intervaled callback drags - especially in ie, which i'm guessing is due to the extra excanvas wrapper. i've had to kill ie's process a couple times just testing stuff.
it's a great alternative to what i was doing 8 years ago in dhtml/css, but i'd like to see the standard extended a bit more. i still maintain that it's a perfect alternative to flash for video and ads, but beyond that i think they are best considered complimentary technologies rather than competative - and i only say that because i know there are many on here and the rest of the net that try to look at the two as an either/or.
- why are you not putting text in a div? canvas is for drawing type as graphics, not as textkpl
- the same reason you'd have text in flash. canvas has text capabilities, so it's clearly there to be used for something.SteveJobs
- maybe you want a paragraph of text over graphics or something. plenty of situations where this might be useful.SteveJobs
- SteveJobs0
bump. interested in hearing other opinions
- ********0
I think the short answer is that Adobe won't be able to provide an export to HTML5.
Maybe they'll be able to devolve some of Flash's features into a 'utility toolset' which would provide code that works with specific HTML5 modules.
As I've mentioned before, I don't think that HTML5 will be (or should be) regarded as a feature-for-feature alternative to Flash. We have Apple's Mr Jobs to thank for the disinformation, imo.
- kpl0
Adobe can totally be able to export to HTML5. You can target to older versions of Flash Player and if you try using a newer feature in the ide, it'll give you a warning dialog. There's no reason why they can't limit the functionality in the same way if they create a JS-based Flash runtime.
The idea that HTML5 doesn't have the same features is a canard. What's important is that HTML5 has all the capabilities that most Flash sites do, and does it in a way that integrates the content into the page better than a plug-in can. I think Flash devs need to stop thinking of the canvas tag like it's the only thing HTML5 can offer in comparison to Flash and remember HTML 4/Ajax can already do a hell of a lot that Flash has been used to do for a long time now.
- um, canard isn't the right word. I meant, it's besides the point.kpl
- a total mothafucking canardkingsteven
- you're missing the point a bit. it's open vs proprietary software, flash will always have more features than HTML5kingsteven
- sorry by "missing the point a bit" i meant "canard"kingsteven
- SteveJobs0
"Adobe can totally be able to export to HTML5. You can target to older versions of Flash Player and if you try using a newer feature in the ide, it'll give you a warning dialog. There's no reason why they can't limit the functionality in the same way if they create a JS-based Flash runtime."
just newer features? hmmm.
anyway, it'll be interesting to see how they enforce this. i don't think many developers out there realize just how much of their stuff they won't be able to port."HTML5 has all the capabilities that most Flash sites do"
really? i don't have a comprehensive enough knowledge of the web today to agree or disagree with this statement, but if you have any sources of info, i'd love to see them.
- ********0
@kpl;
We're not talking about HTML5 replacing Flash in terms of functionality. We're talking about exporting Flash to HTML5.
"What's important is that HTML5 has all the capabilities that most Flash sites do"
This is true. Most sites only make use of a limited subset of the features that flash provides. Most websites only make use of flash for video or advertising banners.
Still, I don't think it's worth expecting that _any_ Flash application will be able to be exported as an HTML5 document any time soon.
- ... but HTML5 doesn't have all the same features. That's false.********
- ... but HTML5 doesn't have all the same features. That's false.
- ********0
Think about how good dreamweaver was at producing HTML4 from a WYSIWYG interface, and you'll have an idea of the likelihood of a good result.
- kpl0
Ok... lets look at text real quick: for example, js library that can take a svg webfont, which fundamentally an XML file, and lay the text in canvas with the same precision that CSS can, and give you the metrics and other typographical mechanics. Of course, JS performance might limit it, but as JS performance increases, the issue becomes less relevant. And of course, such a js lib might never be created because CSS + html seems to suffice already.
The point is that what's capable with HTML5 is not limited by whats in the spec. If there are holes, there are ways to plug them. Flash would require a js runtime to exploit most of its features.
@SteveJobs, isn't it rather obvious that Flash in 2010 is primarily used to drive web video and animations with vectors & bitmaps? HTML5 can handle that fine.
- HTML5 is completely limited by the spec. Its defined by the spec.********
- not limited to what is explicitly stated in the spec, i meant. capabilities can build upon capabilities.kpl
- Ingenuity can always find a way - but trying to mirror Flash is pointless imo.********
- HTML5 is completely limited by the spec. Its defined by the spec.
- hotroddy0
If you have some time to spare: podcast on HTML5 and the marketing hype behind it:
http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2…
- SteveJobs0
it isn't obvious to me.. then again, i'm not a full-fledged flash developer either. i'm agnostic and use the technology that better serves my purpose. and i'm trying to figure out the best uses of canvas and html5, which so far have been very miminal - particularly given the horrible browser support. :/
- SteveJobs0
also, this standard was started back in 2004 (http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.c... that's six years ago. in that time, think about the web technologies that have become standard (jquery, json, ajax) and support is pretty much available across browsers. with html5, we're still lagging and each browser implementation is slightly different - something that we've been dealing with with css, javascript, etc, for ages, and something that flash (early on) was created to address.
i'm all for the html5 standard. i think in some areas i'd prefer to be able to use it instead of flash, but that just seems to be a ways off.
- the reference/link i posted:
http://lists.whatwg.…SteveJobs
- the reference/link i posted:
- ********0
@SteveJobs;
Your namesake has jumped the gun imo. I think the best you can do for now is make sure you have got your standard HTML4 skills up to speed - i.e. you know how to build a site using CSS/HMTL and JS. These skills will almost certainly be built upon by HTML5.
You can introduce some HTML5 features to your sites using principles of progressive-enhancement and via http://www.modernizr.com/
- hotroddy0
This link crashes safari on ipad. Go figure!
http://apirocks.com/html5/
- hotroddy0
^ disregard above: http://apirocks.com/html5/html5.…
- ********0
HTML5 is a good thing.
Flash can also be a good thing.
They are different.