Canon 5d Question
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- version30
photographers seem to specialize, they find something they excel at or enjoy then refine their techniques/methods over time
- kezza_20
Its odd that anyone thinks they are a photographer because they can buy a camera...
maybe im getting old but it strikes me that as cameras have become cheaper and digital more prevalent people think they have what it takes. A good eye and all that. Seems I suppose to be the most easy of the arts to get into...
If you cant pick up a 30 year old camera, fix it, clean it, light a room process your own prints you are not a photographer.
Decent photographs are the green fees for being an amateur, a professional level photographer needs to understand everything from how film is made to how lighting works to processing film and everything in between...
I've worked with some pretty big name photographers and its a science and art...
I'd love to do it, but I think it would be easier to retrain as an architect.
- version30
funny that you say digi loses depth when the lens is responsible for that and most are interchangeable from film to digi camera
- Tungsten0
Not sure how this thread turned into the old film vs. digital debate, but I'll take any opportunity to evangelize a little bit. It really bothers me that so many camera manufacturers abandoned the production of film cameras (and certain films) within the space of just a few years, I guess market demand made this a sensible choice for them, but it still seems premature to me. Many people still shoot film, and for good reason.
If you've ever made a traditional colour c-print in the darkroom, you'll know why the relentless stampede to digital isn't such a great thing. Don't get me wrong, I love making inkjet prints from digital files as much as anyone, but try shooting a backlit portrait at sunset on digital and you'll see what happens to your highlights. They're just gone... and if you expose for those highlights and try to bring up the shadows in post you're now dealing with a shit-storm of noise.
Once the dynamic range issue has been dealt with on digital cameras it might be more of a fair comparison, but for now I guess we have to accept that they are different beasts, with different strengths and weaknesses.
- inteliboy0
It's kind of tiring wading through the countless "photography" pics on flickr/fffound/blogs, even here on qbn, that are just a kid with a dslr and copy of photoshop. A lot of over processed crap.
As for film - it's tough as I LOVE shooting on film, and don't even own a digital camera. The smell, the feel, the look - everything about it is pure class. But after all the $$ and care taken to each click of the shutter, it's becoming hard to stand up against guys who are firing off thousands of shots to get (fluke) a great photo.
- _me_0
" you can have all the gear but still no idea..."
- garretttt0
digital is shit... no depth. trys to emulate film but fails...
film is dead to those who dont appreciate it
and resolution isnt shit if you cant shoot a camera...
turn auto off and shoot manual
- pr20
There is something to be said about Formula 1 cars at Honda Civic prices though...
- formed0
Think of it like this:
If I drove a Formula 1 car on a track it wouldn't make much difference than if I was driving an average sports car. I am just an average driver that doesn't understand the nuances of that power and technology, and simply does not have experience or skills to even begin to be productive with a piece of equipment at that level.
If a Formula 1 driver had a Honda Civic, he'd still kick my ass if I was driving a Ferrari, just because he does know how to utilize the tools in his hand.
Technology and equipment is powerful stuff in the right hands, but in the average persons hands they are overly complex tools, possibly dangerous too.
It is the skill and talent that excels, not the tool.
- If most people drove a formula 1 car, then an average sports car - they'd probably kill themselves before they got a chance to test the second.lukus_W
- chance to try the second.lukus_W
- I see your point though... even if a 5d isn't going to prove fatal :)lukus_W
- not knowing how to use a 5d could prove disastrous thoughversion3
- OSFA0
I am a designer. I love photography and I do it because I love it.
I don't consider myself a professional photographer because I have way too much respect for photographers and the work they do.
Equipment? I am not so sure that makes a huge difference, yes, you might be able to get a nicer shot with a 5D but i've also seen photos taken with polaroids or even iPhones by professionals that look better than a lot of stuff on flickr.
It is similar with graphic and web design. You have your pros and you have people that have an iMac, Photoshop and consider themselves professionals. How many times have you seen 'Websites for $199' on street signs? There's a market for everything... so, don't worry about it too much, if you are good, you are good. period.
- pr20
There is a link to a thread here where all of us share our pics (many of us being designers, painters, what-not). But very few of those pictures - despite the fact that they were all created by highly visual people - are any good. Why? Because bare anyone here is a photographer. That is even if we have the understanding of f-stops, lenses, shutter, ISO, white balance, composition, DOF, color theory and many other aspects we still fail at taking great pictures because there is something extra missing from our understanding of the medium.
- sequoia0
"In general is it easy to just point shoot and be pro with the 5d -
(which i may be oversimplifying) and what do you think that means for the photography videography industry?"Sure it's easy to just point and shoot and get a great image, if you're just trying to take the best shot of a subject.
But say a client were to send you a photo, like the ones bellow and wants you to recreate lighting EXACTLY would you be able to do it?
The job of the professional is to be able to calmly walk in get something like this done. Time and time again, without screwing up. Owning the best equipment that money can buy will not help you. Only experience will.
- version30
machuse, reading your comments and responses, i find the main problem with people like you is you expect the technology to represent your skill, just not true. you obviously misse my point about the "eye". sounds as if you could use a few lessons in composition and framing as well. if you're still cropping your photos after you shoot them, you're still doing it wrong. even the slightest rotations and incorrect perpendicular framing can destroy an otherwise great shot. these are not the camera you take shots with then rotate to fix your mistake. it's still visible. until you learn to use the tool (a camera) properly, it won't matter how much tech they shove inside it
- typist0
@machuse
it takes alot of talent, imagination and guts too
i can give a 5d and plane ticket but you won't get this kinda pictures
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture…
- lukus_W0
Machuse;
I think there's a lot of talent and imagination involved in those industries.
While the talent is often knowing when the right shot is lined up, I think some photographers also have a talent in terms of 'people skills'. There's also a lot to be said for a photographer's ability to relate to their subjects - you're getting a chance to see the world from the point of view of someone else, and the way the world appears is sometimes a reflection of the photographers presence. Some photographers have an ability to blend in, and become skilled observers.
It's possible to learn how, where and what to shoot. Problem solving is always going to be a big part of taking a photo - logistics is something that might need to be taken into account.
Professional ethics is something that needs to be developed too - and is something that probably separates some pros from their enthusiast counterparts. We could go to Haiti and 'point and shoot' at some of the devastation, but I'm not sure that we'd end up doing anyone much justice.
I think imagination sometimes needs to be constrained; and maybe it's difficult for an amateur to know where the limits should lie. Commercial photographers are basically producing a product - and as such, need to be fully aware of their client's industry's restrictions.
- Machuse0
lukus_W - understood and agree with most of your points.
Let me add a counter point without rowling this up too much. How much talent and imagination do you think the average professional portrait, and news photographer brings to their work, that is truly unique and amazing, that no one else would have brought in similar situations. Not the rockstars - just the average professional photographer working for a news org.
We can go to haiti right now, and im sure with our 5d's could go down and take photo's and video that would rival what cnn is putting out. Do we disagree?
- lukus_W0
Machuse;
It isn't lack of access to technology that prevents an enthusiast from becoming a professional.
You need imagination & talent - and, of course, that's something that can't be bought. I really don't even think this is an optimistic view, I think it's a fact.
Sometimes the viewer needs to develop their own eye to be able to judge a good photo.
Maybe, when we look at a piece of work - perhaps we sometimes see the finish first - and we equate the style of filming (or whatever) with the skill involved in producing the work. Maybe it's sometimes difficult to remain objective and examine the core structure and composition of any piece of work, when we have such obviously beautiful surface-technologies (HD, automatic-grading etc). If this is the case, the viewer needs to try harder to examine the work's actual quality.
You're mentioning that you don't need a lot of the skills associated with the old world of film + photography - but what you're failing to realise, is that there are (or are going to be) new technological skills that will need to be mastered. Mastering compression techniques (and developing an effective workflow) is an area that comes to mind .. I'm sure there are many others.
> How will this effect the fashion, portrait, architectural, news,
> product photographer?Potentially a lot more shit work could be produced and published.
- morilla0
Machuse,,
"Anyone with a desire can shoot great pro looking work? "
It's not the tool that makes great looking shots."No longer do I need a studio setup and the costs and learning curve associated with it to create great outdoor / indoor shots. No longer do I need an understanding of exposure, and how my development process will effect final output. No longer do I need to spend time worrying about buying the correct speed film for the effect I want to achieve... just point and shoot"
Even if you are shooting digital rigs, you need to know the basic and complicated fundamentals of photography. That will never change.
I am 36 now and have had a chance to watch this film vs. digital battle play out over the past 15 years with my photography buddies. They are all pros and span from fashion, sports, studio and art. Pretty much all of them ditched their film rigs around the same time the digital capabilities caught up to their standards. They all went with high end canons, nikons and hasselblads and have never mentioned the word "film" since.
I understand the nuances of the darkroom and it's appeal to the "purists". But it's about streamlining one's workflow. Digital is far superior in that aspect. And just because you shoot digital doesn't mean you can just pick it up and shoot. You still need to know your sh-t.
I was at Photo L.A. last year attending a lecture by J.P. Witkin (I am a huge fan of this guy). About 3/4 of the way through his presentation he started showing his newer prints on a old tattered projector screen. And the words came from his mouth " I began shooting in digital for my newer works..." You could here a pin drop and gasps from his sheeple followers. It was like their christ had betrayed them. It's just evolution.
- understood, I respect the insight. I Feel somewhat different in practice - but I do see what you are sayingMachuse
- dylan goes electriclukus_W
- Machuse, if you don't want to drop crazy $$ go and get the 7D.morilla
- yeah, you'll here the "full frame" argument. But I couldn't be happier with that camera.morilla