Paying for Meetings
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- WeLoveNoise
Does anyone charge for meetings here ?
I have a client or 2 that are demanding too much time in meetings so now thinking about charging for it because feels like they are taking the piss abit.
- mydo0
too late!
we never have, but we have a new client that will need a lot of time. so we're laying it out in the initial contract. but if you didn't say at the start you'll have a hard job now.
- WeLoveNoise0
yeh what i thought
to be honest i'm contemplating writing one of those clients off altogether if he gets any worse
- Dancer0
I haven't done for the last 6 years and made a point of it in my initial meet. Now I have some pretty demanding clients and I have started to add in "project management" into my estimate... if spend all the time emailing, on the phone, commuting to meetings, etc... then how do they expect me to do "chargeable" design.
Next year is a new year and a new project workflow and time/payment structure
- p.s WLN – do you have a design week?Dancer
- was hoping u replied mate. i never get design week, why ?WeLoveNoise
- just read ur thread - going into town in abit so will see if its around. whats the address u want ?WeLoveNoise
- In the back. Senior designer – Journey Ltd. ThanksDancer
- okWeLoveNoise
- mydo0
nothing better than firing a client. it's the worlds best feeling.
- WeLoveNoise0
yeh was thinking about incorporating project management into the quotes now. Think thats the easiest and subtle way of telling people.
- utopian0
Yes, I charge for every meeting. Whether it is a conference call, or an actual visit to my clients office. I also charge for the time that it takes me to get to and from the meetings.
- nicemydo
- u sound like a strude business man :)WeLoveNoise
- mydo0
utopian, do you manage clients who in the initial meeting are squeezing hours of info out of you before signing a contract?
do you ever say. ok ok WAIT. no more advise until you sign here buddy.
- mydo0
do you also charge if you call them and the phone call turns into a half hour discussion about the project?
- something like this i would expect u just incorporate into the final invoice under project management surelyWeLoveNoise
- Dancer0
^ I would say that would have to be an educated decision... much like when one deos work for free. For example, one of my longterm clients that has 3 companies needed a place setting doing for his dad's 90th... he was quite specific about what he wanted and it took me quite a bit of reseacrh and time... needless to day I did it for free
- erikjonsson0
working on location on dayrate is the way to go :P
- WeLoveNoise0
theres always a case of doing a little free work because you always think u will win in the longterm. it was just getting to me when this particular client said could i do something "will only take a minute wont it". i thought - ur taking the piss now after wasting literally an entire day for a meeting
- PonyBoy0
include it in your project cost along with your 'time spent saying 'no, that's dumb'' to client ideas via email... never tell them you're charging them for it - why look like an asshole when you can appear great but know deep down inside you took their weak asses for a ride on their dime?
be sure to extend your middle finger their direction as you type up the invoice laughing at the sky because it's merely blue
(*has realization as to why he's having a hard time getting paid on time these days)
- utopian0
To be honest with you mydo, I estimate the amount of hours needed to design and complete a project before I take on any specific project. Which includes: research, design concepts, meetings, implementation, QA, testing, etc... I usually do not take on projects where the client insists on paying me an hourly rate unless I have a working history with that particular client. I prefer to work on projects with a fixed price and project definition, with a verbal or written claus for "scope creep" and or uncontrolled changes brought on by the client and or their team.
- mydo0
so does this mean you don't charge for meetings as such, but just factor that time into the overall project.
I've been doing this recently as i realised i the amount of time i was spending doing this.
have you ever had the situation where you've been asked to come in for a long meeting and felt you need to charge, can you add that on as scope creep?i think it would be interesting to bill clients like a psychiatrist or lawyer though.
- mydo0
how about making phones £1 a minute. invite clients to call you when they want to tell you about a really good website their girlfriend likes.
- babaganush0
I think you just need to factor in how much business/profit this clint is worth long tm. If they're not worth much just be straight up and have a small 'meeting' :) about their time management and as a business you can't afford to have long meetings unbilled. However, if they are a cash cow and have loads of projects that they assure you will be getting long term it may be wotrh it.
Or you could ask about a retainer. i had an problem like this with one of th largest co.s in the world, kept asking me to head over for meetings for 'possibl'e 2k jobs. I was straight up and politely said, 'Your projects cannot afford me, let's chat when you have something suitable - 2 weeks lat I got a 10k job.
- set0
I am very lucky in that I have managed to whittle my client base down over the years to the point I am now where I'm on good, understandable terms with my regular clients. Almost all my work is done through email which is great. I do get the odd client like one last month that just expects you to be able to up and come to a meeting at their whim. They got a little offended when I told them I didn't have the time to travel up to london and spend hours listening to them babble on when they could outline it all in an email and if I had any questions I'd call them. This is an idealistic and almost lazy approach but I have been lucky enough to be able to build up a client list of which the people are happy to do it this way...
The way I see it is why waste my time at meetings or on the phone having to take notes when they can make one big list of notes and email it to me... haha
- set0
Btw I think its very reasonable to charge for meetings if its encroaching on time that could be spent working.
- Projectile0
I've cut meetings short when they start babbling and rambling and making dumbass suggesions and demands, by simply saying "I'd really better get on with it, especially while all these ideas are still fresh in our heads."
- manonthestreet0
hi. The initial project plan and requirement doc should outline all review dates/times, number of iterations, complete design/development schedule, Q & A, and delivery items.
If you do a thorough job it is easy to point out where you went beyond the call of duty with additional discovery and where things go out of scope. Have these discussions as they are occurring and not after the fact if you plan to bill extra.
There is NOTHING wrong with charging extra. Usually the problem is how you charge extra.