Inside The KDU
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- Horp0
I have never really known very much about the KDU but it seems to me that the criticisms levelled at the group might just be the result of having too high expectations to begin with.
I would imagine that people assume they will join the group, get lots of work on lots of projects and get paid very highly for it.
In the first film that MWM bloke pretty much states that its like a crowd sourcing system, and that a job comes in and many people worldwide are given a chance to be do something in response. They wont be using all that work though, only a few people's responses will be appropriate, and so everyone else is maybe left feeling disgruntled that they worked on it but got nothing back... free pitching in other words.
Of those that do get picked, its easy to sit there and think "I did all this illustrated typography so I should be paid tens of thousands" but the reality is that the pay for just doing some lettering (or some photography, or some design etc) on a project that has by nature involved a whole host of contributors is not going to yield a great fortune for the individual.
I don't know hardly anything about the KDU, and what I have heard has always been negative, so I have been naturally suspicious of them and their motives. But having watched those films I can't help thinking this is in essence a great idea and its a shame its criticised so much. I can't say I love the work all that much, its very much of a certain style and quite a generic trend driven style at that, but with this set up they can ride all trends and adopt and drop at will.
Maybe that too is why people get disgruntled... maybe some people ride high on the KDU wave for a while but then find their style is not being used as things evolve and they end up feeling left behind and bitter.
I would be really interested to know what actual tangible examples of unfair treatment there are floating round out there. I would really like to know if anyone has actually been promised X amount of payment and received little or nothing at all in reality.
Otherwise I just can't help feeling this is potentially a good idea that is being undermined by naive expectations from some of its participants.
It makes me think that all the time we all spend on here could be spent creating an alternative organisation to rival the KDU.
- There. Thats my morning essay dealt with.Horp
- I'll take this to read on holiday.Jnr_Madison
- Finished all your Maeve Binchy novels then Jnr?Horp
- She's no Jane Austen.Jnr_Madison
- this pretty much nails it as to why people hate, they expect it to be a hype machine to make them design celebrities and it is not that.pepe
- Completely agree. Like that last paragraph a lot too! :-)identity
- With such collaborative successes as the Fucking LOLCube I don't see why notMSTRPLN
- dyspl0
What makes me feel very suspicious about the KDU :
things I can read from KDU members, which are also KDU fans remind me the things I could hear and read in my past previous job as inhouse designer in an "extreme" sport brand.I've seen a lot of people spending night and days, working for free, while the co-owners were continously asking for more letting those people dream about partnership/friendship and money 'if everything goes right in some times'.
They were so innocent and happy to be a part of it, that they forget to react like they should have done (work=money).
Then I've seen those fans leaving thew, bitter once they had realized no-one would ever give them what they expected.
And the funny things (which reminds me A LOT the kdu) is that the newest members were naturally bashing the ex-members, arguing they weren't good enough to stay...Of course none of the current member would give an objective reason to stay in, or would answers questions such as : have you been rewarded, have you got some money from all that work?
And I heard exactly the same way to talk about membership, full of superlatives.
There's nothing wrong with working together, even for free, as long as there's not someone at the top of the pyramid who gets all the money and fame while leaving peanuts to the others.
I'm not hating, just curious about the way it really works.
- effort0
anyone else getting an informercial meets scientology vibe from this thing?
- spokenword0
Horp, you couldn't be more wrong. That is completely incorrect. No one in the kdu think they're going to earn "tens of thousands" when they work on a project. Where did you come up with this? Completely wrong.
Horp said - "I would really like to know if anyone has actually been promised X amount of payment and received little or nothing at all in reality."
Well Horp, every single project for the KDU is pro-bono, for free. You don't get paid! That's not entirely clear when "joining" this little group, but you're expected to pitch in for free on every project. The promised return on your investment of time, talent, and energy -- a promise made by David Gensler -- is that you'll get exposure and that he's well connected, so he can swing paying gigs your way.
But guess what? That doesn't pan out either. So the issue is that these young artists and designers are being attracted to what looks like a very legit, and very lucrative, organization. "Why, I know Si Scott and NoPattern! They have big clients in their folios! The KDU must be the route to success!"
But those artists didn't actually get their big jobs from The KDU. But the way Gensler acts--taking credit for the work and the client experience of dozens of independents -- you wouldn't guess it. He's an attention whore, and he needs the accomplishments of others to be his own.
Horp said - "They wont be using all that work though, only a few people's responses will be appropriate"
Wrong. They use almost all the work. They throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Have you never looked at projects from The KDU?
- Interesting. In answer to your final question, no, I have never really looked nor do I know much about the KDU.Horp
- I really was looking for honest responses, of which yours is one, but I have no angle to my interest... I am not KDU for example.Horp
- example... just really curious about the root of the negative criticism.Horp
- ukit0
I much prefer the KLF
- janne760
this whole kdu shit is based on professionalising spec work. they are a bunch of pussies killing an industry even further. if it couldn't already be more dead.
- harlequino0
Gensler was born in Kenya.
- janne760
i was born in holland
- dyspl0
@-pepe : my point was to know if member were aware that the work would not be paid, and would not necessary give them any fame due to their connection to the KDU. I've seen several portflios from KDU members, and a lot of them are young wanabees (as we'll have been at the start of our career I guess).
And seing some of complex video comments it seems that the money/fame issue is not that clear.Now seeing your work, I maybe wrong but I'd say that you would have gained large client sooner or later without the KDU.
PS 1: I find the client list very short considering the amount of member and the selfpromotional work done by the KDU on the internet.
PS 2.
"The interior was a dramatic and stunning setting for equally stunning work." picked from nontype about the diesel brave expo. Speaking about his own work (or work done together) pretty cheesy and not humble at all.
- janne760
don't wind yourself up so much. pepe. this is a messageboard. if you feel offended it kind of proves what has been said about the KDU.
- rzrffglyr0
Judging from what has been said in this thread and the video link comments, a lot of the issues seem to stem out of a lack of transparency in the organization upon joining. But then again some of the responsibility falls on the KDU member - to ask the right questions, etc. But then again when some may be so new to the biz, does no one at least offer realistic expectations to them that they can hold from their collaboration? Maybe that's the problem that remains.
- ********0
lol the kdu is some bullshit.
- erikjonsson0
seems to me that they feed of black and white pyramids and si scotts ornament style
- janne760
hmm..
- ********0
erikjonsson, at least they don't feed off 7 year old abstract 3d wallpapers like your-majesty.
- d_rek0
I've never been part of a designers collective.
But I get paid.
- mathinc0
I don't know shit about the KDU.. but after reading some of the video comments.. it looks like none of those cocksuckers knows how to formulate a proper sentence. And what's the deal with all the macho posturing and chest thumping? Threats, insults, childish bravado, damn ... there goes the industry!
