Baseline Questions
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- BRNK
So I'm a fake designer. I'm one of those assholes who has a degree in painting and works as a designer, therefore there's plenty I don't know about design.
My question is: How valuable is it to align all text to a baseline grid as opposed to the first line of a paragraph when working with a text-heavy document? I'm afraid that aligning all the text to a grid with enough room for line-spacing would push me over my page limit. Do I even need a baseline grid for something like a newsletter as long as things are laid out in an orderly way? My inclination is to say yes. Help me out or flame me, whichever you're better at. Thanks.
- monospaced0
eh, baseline grids aren't the end all
- monospaced0
use consistent leading and you'll be good
- BRNK0
- arrghhh!!BaskerviIle
- ouch. this hurts meplash
- not the worst I've seen, but I would suggest a larger margin between the columns which may eliminate the orphans (widows?)monospaced
- you should have posted this on a monday, there's no time to go through this now!BaskerviIle
- BaskerviIle0
WIth type, your line length, point size and leading are the most important. If you have text heavy document (like a novel) then your leading will essentially be your baseline grid.
It's sometimes useful to have the baseline grid set to your leading size, starting at your first line so you can double check that the leading is correct throughout.
Baseline grid is also useful for working out divisions of point sizes and leading etc (eg for footnotes/captions etc).I would never click 'snap to baseline grid' that is just plain lazy and leads to poor leading and spacing between headings etc. Do things properly
- monospaced0
Guys, it's a family newsletter, not a freakin' corporate identity from a premiere design firm. Just help him get it out the door, not rip on him.
- It's cool, art school taught me to thrive on harsh crits. :)BRNK
- typist0
justify your text block, give more space between two text block
bullet ppint bigger for 30% to give more contrast
- Dancer0
^for this I would say you should get away without a baseline. but as a rule I would use one esp. for anything more than this.
Set the grid to half or even 1/4 the leading and size your type accordingly
- baseline_shift0
Use tabs for smaller indents after bullet points.
Watch those breaks! 'day' shouldnt be alone on the second line by itself.
- and watch the justificatoin after the bullets. looks like there are a few extra spaces in there.baseline_shift
- Those darn orphans!BRNK
- yeah, get rid of thosemonospaced
- plash0
use a grid
- typist0
beware of widow
http://www.fonts.com/AboutFonts/…
- monospaced0
do not justify your text, that would look like shit
- good for amatuer who can't kerntypist
- no, it's notmonospaced
- BRNK0
You guys are the best. Thanks all.
- BaskerviIle0
ok, practial help:
you've essentially got a very limited space for your body copy. My advice would be to reduce your point size to give more space, and as mentioned above make the gutter between the 2 columns larger (5mm or more).
Because you're using what looks like Mrs Eaves (which is very small on its body - ie has a small x-height) your type already looks small, so I'd recommend a typeface with a larger x-height such as Plantin.
Then you can reduce the type size without sacrificing legibility.Also, you need to sort out the hierarchy in your body copy. Consider using bold for your headings rather than a larger point size (this will save space and make things look more unified). Also don't add such a large space after your bullets and make sure you indent them.
The dotted line around the 'Every day children should eat' is very tight to the copy. Maybe rethink that. That section could be in a different colour type (maybe the pink of the Extension logo). You shouldn't need to add a box around it to give it emphasis.
- I agree. The short x-height is affecting legibility.monospaced
- This is hugely helpful, thank you!BRNK
- Nairn0
With something as simple and as 'homely' as this, I'd do most of it by eye.
The benefits of hard set rules and guides are only really appreciable across multiple pages, imo.
- Though, if you have a shit eye, this is probably bad advice.Nairn
- I'm not saying you shouldn't have rules - just that you can probably get a beautiful result without getting anal and panicky.Nairn
- I see what you mean, but I'm handing this off to real designers shortly, so I want to minimize their headache. :)BRNK
- heheh shitty anal eye.
I'll go back to my colouring book now.dropdown
- monospaced0
You indent bullets, Baskerville? I prefer to left align the bullet and use the space after it to act as an indent (that's how it's supposed to work, right?)
- why don't you just help the guy, rather giving side kick?typist
- dude, I did manmonospaced
- johndiggity0
i personally like to always use a baseline grid of 12pts and then use measurements in factors of 3pts (ie 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 24 etc...).
This keeps the math easy while allowing for a good range of hierarchy. i also like to keep the margins and gutters as close to this as possible as well. if you figure 12pts is 1/4", it makes the math even easier. provided you are working in inches that is.- <gramme
- Except that 12 pts is not 1/4". 18 pts is 1/4".duckofrubber
- mistermik0
i use 3 for everything.
- BaskerviIle0
monospaced, This is how bullets should work (they should hang outside the text block)
http://www.markboulton.co.uk/jou…What is normal (as far as I know) is to have a bullet next to a the text separate by an en or em space but that whole chunk can be indented from the normal text block, eg:
text block goes here text block goes here text block goes here
text block goes here text block goes here text block goes here
text block goes here text block goes here text block goes here
text block goes here text block goes here text block goes here
• first bullet item
• second bullet item(not sure that will work on here!)
- nope didn't work, QBN obviously removes any empty spaces before items, d'ohBaskerviIle
- I read the article thoughmonospaced
- i don't think there's a hard and fast rule to the space following a bullet before the copy. i like to set my tabs proportionate to my columns and use those.johndiggity
- column measurements and use those.johndiggity
- mark boulton, lol, did you see how crappy his book is designed? the only reason to buy it is to extract Jubilat...jimbojones
- also, using bullets in modern typography... we have so, so many more possibilities now, but people still want these huge monsters :(jimbojones