Client Advice
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- sofakingbanned
So I have a client situation I would like your opinion on.
I've had this client for about 2 years, I have done several projects for them since the beginning of their company's start.
Until recently I have worked mostly with one person, the co-owner. In general things are good; they want to create a good looking brand and are usually open to good design.
Let me note that when I was contracted my objective has been to make this brand look as good as some of the big brands out there. (apple, nike, etc; you know the deal)In the beginning things were ok, minus a couple moments here and there that rang alarms.
For example, they like taking the final file of the projects I create and "play" with the design. (not always just some times)
Let me give you an example: when I was designing their logo they took the final file and played with the design by adding a gradient to the lettering portion of the logo and said "hey what do you think of this, it looks really cool" I'm talking about crazy nasty super dark color to light colors that don't match gradient. I simply gave them a polite reason as to why it wasn't a good idea and they agreed. I managed to save that project.Another example: When there is a trade show event and they need a one time banner or meter board they take the files from projects I have already completed and give it to another partner to create the one time piece. Now I'm talking about giving design files to a guy who has no design background what so ever, imagine an accountant or business adviser. Needless to say the designs are terrible, I'm talking about embarrassing. So basically all the top guys have CS3 and they are not afraid to use it.
Heres where things have gotten tricky, recently the guy I have done projects with has stepped out of the picture and gave the responsibility to the other co-owner.
This guy is driving me fucking nuts. He pretty much designs every project first as a quick mock up to show what he wants. At first I was like ok let me take your general idea and make it go with the style we have established. Then he comes back and wants changes that are totally off from the companies desired look, he makes SUPER cheesy suggestions like "Also, let's try using this space for a friendly little 'easter egg' surprise - How about some copy that says: "Hello!" With a smiley face or something cute." Thats a direct quote. Basically the guy wants to create an apple like brand by using cheap marketing tactics that super markets and monster truck shows use.So far I have done 3 projects with this guy, the first one was brutal. I wrote emails everyday explaining why his ideas were bad and we should stick to the style already established. By the next project I just couldn't go through that shit again, I'm talking about fighting every single square inch of the project. I finally just said: "hey man it seems like you and I have very different ideas on how to execute the marketing for this brand, your partner and I have been working hard to establish a design language for your company and your direction is very inconsistent and damaging to the brand." His response was "We're in a crunch right now, lets talk about it later" I CC:ed his partner as well and he didn't say a word.
Since then I have taken the mentality that its their company, if they want it to look like shit what should I care, just as long as they pay me.
But it is quite difficult watching it go down the drain.At the moment I'm doing a project that is an important marketing item for the company. The owner guy is totally destroying it, its like he's doing it on purpose or something.
So my question is: how do I deal with this?
Do I just say fuck it? Do the work they want and let it burn?
Do I talk to the original guy I was dealing with and let him know this is not working out?
Do I reject the next project?I don't know, I guess I'm just thinking out loud, to be honest I know it doesn't sound like a big deal but I did invest a lot in these guys and had high hopes for the company and the work we would do together.
Anyway thanks for reading if you read the whole thing. any thought or advise are welcome.
Thanks.
- TOMMYxGUNN0
How much are they paying? Is it a decent amount? Are they one of your main incomes?
This is a question of integrity.
- sofakingbanned0
They pay well, but I don't depend on them.
If I really had to I could drop them, but like I said I put a lot of work in to this branding project... I hate to see it go.
I guess I'm personalizing it to much.
- sounds like it's kinda going on it's own, despite your best effortslocustsloth
- typist0
pic?
- _salisae_0
the thing most design buyers don't understand is you need them to articulate the problem they have with the design so you can come up with a solution. when they say 'change this' you need to ask them to clarify the problem they are attempting to solve so you can do the solution work instead of them.
- Very good point. Easier said then done sometimes :)sofakingbanned
- I'm sure you could come up with a better solution than the Easter thing while still answering his need to look engaging._salisae_
- and the gradient toying they did --maybe they just wanted the logo to be more noticeable. try to interpret their needs._salisae_
- I hear ya. Good perspective, I'll work on that.sofakingbanned
- hans_glib0
Changing a client's attitude is like trying to alter the course of a supertanker - you have to do it little by little.
If you think the company is going places then invest some time in it and keep challenging all their shit ideas. You won't always win to begin with, but little by little they will come round to your way of thinking. But it'll be painful - lots of crap will be produced in the meantime. Keep your eyes fixed on the final goal. Lose a battle to win the war etc etc
If they aren't worth this investment, then if you need the money swallow your pride and keep billing them, and if you don't need the money tell them to go fuck themselves.
- TOMMYxGUNN0
Well it sounds like it's going to go down the drain with or without your input. If you leave he'll only get somebody else in who will do exactly what he wants, sounds like he's not looking for a thinker, but a CAD monkey.
- roundabout0
If I was you and the money was good do exactly what the client wants and if the design work looks terrible explain to the company you where under strict instruction to produce these ideas and this is the end result. They will be in-contact within the week asking you to redesign the graphic work again, just keep on billing.
If that does not work and you can afford to loss a client, work away.
- sofakingbanned0
Yea, like I said the guy I was dealing with originally had the right idea. He wanted a brad that was driven by design and good ideas.
This other guy is a total ass-hat, I just don't know where he gets these cheesy off the wall ideas. Also as a side note he's always trying to bring down my prices, I didn't have this problem before and now before each project he tries to do the: "this should only take you a couple hours, heres my budget for the project"
I dont play that shit.
- dMullins0
"This is a question of integrity." is a pretty close call.
Although, if you liked working with them in the past, I would do this.
Whatever their measureable revenue/ROI is, I would ask to see numbers or indicators that you can use to demonstrate the effect your ideas have created for their brand. If you can poignantly show them a decrease in sales, or devaluation of their brand as a direct result of the changes this new wanker is suggesting/forcing, I'm pretty sure the resounding voice in the end will be, "Ignore our guy, you're the expect, you've proven it."
Sounds like you really cherish this client, and I think if you take a very strategic and tactical approach to this problem, that you can not only keep the client happy as well as yourself, but create a really refreshing vantage for why your opinion should matter so much to them, as someone who has ushered in financial gains for their brand.
That's just my two cents.
- Thing is its only been 3 projects with this guy and I manged to salvage the first one. I could use the money thing until later.sofakingbanned
- dMullins0
As far as the "here's my budget, it should only take you such and such hours," tell him very firmly that he needs to can that bullshit. Let 'em know that there is a mutual, professional respect between the both of you that is implied by your business-focused relationship, and that it would behoove him to let the expert determine these kinds of parameters. Otherwise, he could end up selling his brand short in the end by squeezing pennies.
- True, very true. I told him straight up; Thats not how it goes. I give the estimates for my time, not him.sofakingbanned
- MSL0
This sounds like the same conversation I had with a client just last week. He would often send me scamps of what he would like to see me create. Finally I broke, and told him that they employed our services for being creative and giving clients a professional service. To bypass all that and to rely on a design created by somebody who can use Microsoft Paint and a pirated version of CS2 is utter madness.
We now tells clients that if they design first we will not work with them. Clients come to you for a professional creative service, not to build up designs someone has done in-house.
Be firm.
Good luck.
- CGware0
You many want to read this little essay: Designers, respect yourself. There is a time and place when you need to say - stop it or I quit.
- BenWeeks0
re pricing: say, "Actually, my prices are lower than others for similar quality work." You get what you pay for. There is always someone cheaper. The value of the many intangible benefits you offer probably far outweighs your slightly higher prices. Just how much, for example, are your greater efficiency and increased dependability really worth? You're a proven entity. Someone else is not and is therefore risky to your client.
If you don't feel listened to, respected or understood, you can tell them that feeling this way brings into question their value to you as a client. It's not just about money. Your reputation is intertwined with your work. They're showing classic red flags that will destroy relationships with any talented professional creative designer. If they want a recent grad to work in house for $17 an hour doing their bidding-fine. But they'll lose access to wise advice and become less effective, ultimately wasting most of their money for a few bucks of "savings."
- mg330
I'm sure you do this, but do you, along with them, evaluate what their competitors are doing? What vein of style and marketing approach do the competitors use? Is it very different from this skewed direction they want to take?
I'm sure you do it because you seem to be focused and know what you're talking about. How do they react to seeing how they rank alongside competitors, in the sense of their visuals and the translated message?
I really admire the fact that you care and have a connection to the project. it takes some guts to stick it out, but you really believe in what you can offer them if only they will just listen and take that advice. I have a client who is a thorn in my side, totally, but they are in desperate need of a full web site revamp that I know they won't do. But i want it to happen so badly because I want the challenge of helping them come full-swing into the modern age, both in software and CMS, but also in terms of just how they organize content and getting the most out of our product and services.
- move0
Drum roll pleas.......... Hire an intern to do the work (while continuing to charge your going rate, or more, of course), keep their work out of your portfolio, find a pro-bono client and put your energy and passion into designing work for them that can go in your portfolio in its place. HELLO!!!