Gaza
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- Danglin_Dave0
funny thing is that i think that in the essence of the matter we do agree you just go too far in portraying one side of the story as animals. thats just what both factions want you to do see the other one as animals while both parties consist out of people that just want to live their life in peace
- KwesiJ0
http://www.google.com/hostednews…
i don't think anyone is surfing in gaza right now
- janne760
i'm off.
i feel a little bit more relieved now.
just here to get out all the anger and put it somewhere. like qbn.
- ukit0
I think it's safe to say this conflict between janne76 and Danglin_Dave may not be resolved anytime soon...
- it's just an internet argument.janne76
- quick !
in the bunker !omgitsacamera
- janne760
i am pro-peace.
i am just hugely disappointed in israel.
- ukit0
I can see the fault in both sides. The Palestinians are suffering the most, but they also have a sick culture that celebrates death and suicide bombings.
- Amicus0
The Israelis have one of the worlds best trained forces in the mossad... why they didn't send them in under cover to pick off the actual targets they wanted is beyond me! Using American tactics like Shock and Awe is not the way to win a war as we have seen in the latest Iraq war and in Vietnam.
- As good as you may think Mossad is, Hamas are for the most part no amateurs.ornj
- Amicus0
The hardest part of this conflict is the culture of violence that is supported by radical religious zealots. They teach their children that violence is the answer.
Everytime the violence is restarted the anger, hatred and mistrust is driven deeper into the core of those that feel they are victims – which happen to be both arab and jewish people within israel, palestine and the families, friends who have escaped the immediate conflict and live in countries such as America, the UK, Australia and elsewhere.
- i just don't see how religious zealots have that much to do with it when its clear the militarized political leaders from both sides are doing the attacks.KwesiJ
- ...are doing the attacks. sure holy land and religious radacalism have something to dow the conflict in general but look at it more closelyKwesiJ
- ...take a look at the issue closer.KwesiJ
- I've taken a closer look. The greed etc that drives the militarism is underscored by religion... an eye for an eye etc etcAmicus
- janne760
i jsut read back where i called him a fascist cunt. and in hindsight it was justified.
fascism has always proven to be very effective to force censorship on different views. before i said anything to him he demanded me to "shut the hell up" aka not respecting my opinion at all.
i wonder what is wrong with you, dangling_dave.
i really wonder.
- omgitsacamera0
pretty soon aliens are gonna get annoyed about all this data transmittance regarding this and glass the middle east at least, if not the whole world..
- i prefer marble. i like marble. well some kinds at least.janne76
- janne760
and, vespa, i am not against protest. they jsut don't make sense in a staticly polarized world. i do like the creativity people put in the signs, hence my postings.
i don't believe the protests have much effect. good on them for protesting though.
- GeorgesII0
I'm linking from an article I found on reddit
- April 2008
"After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever."
- tank020
You know the saddest part, they have so many things in common
& good live great next to eachother if the situation wasn't driven to an edge by extremists from both sides.
- emukid0
"Stealing Gaza
By BRIAN ENOIt's a tragedy that the Israelis - a people who must understand better than almost anybody the horrors of oppression - are now acting as oppressors. As the great Jewish writer Primo Levi once remarked "Everybody has their Jews, and for the Israelis it's the Palestinians". By creating a middle Eastern version of the Warsaw ghetto they are recapitulating their own history as though they've forgotten it. And by trying to paint an equivalence between the Palestinians - with their homemade rockets and stone-throwing teenagers - and themselves - with one of the most sophisticated military machines in the world - they sacrifice all credibility.
The Israelis are a gifted and resourceful people who fully deserve the right to live in peace, but who seem intent on squandering every chance to allow that to happen. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that this conflict serves the political and economic purposes of Israel so well that they have every interest in maintaining it. While there is fighting they can continue to build illegal settlements. While there is fighting they continue to receive huge quantities of military aid from the United States. And while there is fighting they can avoid looking candidly at themselves and the ruthlessness into which they are descending.
Gaza is now an experiment in provocation. Stuff one and a half million people into a tiny space, stifle their access to water, electricity, food and medical treatment, destroy their livelihoods, and humiliate them regularly...and, surprise, surprise - they turn hostile. Now why would you want to make that experiment?
Because the hostility you provoke is the whole point. Now 'under attack' you can cast yourself as the victim, and call out the helicopter gunships and the F16 attack fighters and the heavy tanks and the guided missiles, and destroy yet more of the pathetic remains of infrastructure that the Palestinian state still has left. And then you can point to it as a hopeless case, unfit to govern itself, a terrorist state, a state with which you couldn't possibly reach an accommodation.
And then you can carry on with business as usual, quietly stealing their homeland.
Brian Eno is a musician and music producer. "
- toe_knee0
what i dont fully understand is that Isreal is going into Gazza to completely wipe out Hamas. But Hamas is an elected government, not a dictatorship like say Sadams reigime or even Mogabi. Surely this is illegal....? Or am I getting something wrong here?
- You think having a democracy or a dictatorship makes it legal/ illegal to invade?ukit
- Not at all. But if it were a dictatorship, then it would be easier to comprehend.toe_knee
- it's irrelavent if hamas is elected or not. they are an organization that decided it was a good idea to shoot rockets into Israel with the goal of killing Israeli civilians. they are being taking out because of that. nothing to do with the fact that they were elected or not.THA
- this is illegal and so is the iraq invasionKwesiJ
- Amicus0
"Jewish ethics clearly distinguishes between the different categories of war. An obligatory war requires a different mode of ethical conduct than all other types of war. Particularly when discussing the obligation in the time of Joshua to conquer the land of Israel for the first time and the generic biblical obligation to destroy Amalek, Jewish law mandates a different set of ethical norms for these historical obligations. Thus Maimonides states:
It is a positive commandment to vanquish the seven nations [that used to occupy Israel] since it says "you shall vanquish them." Anyone who has one of the members of that nation subservient to him and does not kill him violates the negative commandment, since it says "no life shall survive [from the seven nations]."
- do some research into halachic justifications for war... plenty of evidence out there.Amicus
- yeah, lets base all our rules of war on some shite that was written in the dark ages.toe_knee
- Just showing the religious justifications that underscore the conflict. btw this is all written long before the dark agesAmicus
- Samush0
as i write this i am in israel, albeit in a very safe area.
i have spoken to people in israel who are under threat of the rockets being fired from gaza. i have friends in the army who are fighting in gaza right now. i'd much prefer them not to have to be there but it is a necessary evil.i have read all the views and opinions on this thread and i understand what has been said. i am pro-peace and its awful that innocent people get caught in the cross-fire in conflict like this, i'd just like to share some facts with you that may help you understand the situation.
in the past 8 years hundreds of israeli civilians have been killed by suicide bombers and over 8,000 rockets have been fired into israel from the gaza strip. these rockets are fired into residential areas and, although not particularly accurate, are intended to kill innocent people.
israel's operations are retaliation for the rockets and suicide bombs, their aim is to weaken hammas and stop the rockets being fired into israel. basic self-defence.it is due hammas' consistent use of civilian shields that innocent people get killed. the mosque that got hit by an israel missile a few days ago contained hammas supplies and ammuntion. it is also known that hammas have a command post in the basement of the main hospital in gaza city.
hammas have said they have 300 women and children who are "prepared" to blow them-selves up to kill israeli soliders on the ground in gaza, these people are innocent and under the aggressive rule of hammas, they are forced to strap explosives to their chest. why else would the explosives be detonated remotely?!israel is providing humanitarian aid for the gaza strip all the time, it would be more than acceptable to expect egypt to help gazans but they don't want to, instead egyptian border control killed gazan civilan's a few days ago when they tried to cross the border into egypt- this is not widely reported in the media because it doesn't make good headlines.
israel has to defend its land and its people from constant threat from its arab neighbours. at the moment there are no problems with anyone apart from the current conflict in gaza.
i think it would be realistic to say the US and UK would retaliate with similar force if they were put under threat and attacked constantly like the vast majority of israel is on a daily basis.
just imagine if...
...your child couldn't go to school because their school is in range of a lethal rocket.
...suicide bombers walked into a shopping mall or got on a bus in your town and blew themselves up.
...your house or apartment had been damaged by a rocket.just a note: all new properties in israel must be built to include a safe room/bomb shelter
that is life in israel, if that had been happening to you for nearly a decade you'd be pretty fed-up by now and would be ready to do something about it.
i am not supporting violence, just trying to make sense of it, unfortunately their doesn't appear to be any straight-forward long-term peaceful solution.- hhmm, i don't want to trade places. But still using civilian shields, mosque and hospitals as your cover doesn't give israel the right to bomb those things. Sent your mossad people to kill the bad people and sabotage the rockets.keiTai
- the right to bomb the places. Use your mossad to kill the bad peoplekeiTai
- and sabotage the rockets
keiTai - btw wouldn't it be possible to create a rocketshield, so rockets can't reach israel?keiTai
- the rockets are home-made, making them very difficult to shield and "jam"Samush
- You can't shield from such small rockets. Radar can't pick out objects that small...IRNlun6
- tank020
just a note: all new properties in israel must be built to include a safe room/bomb shelter
adjusted:
just a note: all new 'illegaly build' properties in israel must be built to include a safe room/bomb shelter