I ponder
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- ********0
Eco, following some of Wittgenstein's fundamentals, has really put a nice book on how many philosophical problems - and many problems of daily life, too - derive from wrong questioning and analysis.
- And I only got as far as page 30 ;)********
- Based on early or late Wittgenstein? - as they are two different beasts there...TheBlueOne
- Based on his method. I invoked that comparison, not him. Not as far as p. 30 he doesn't.********
- And I only got as far as page 30 ;)
- ********0
"How did I get here? How much of me now came from then?" And you realize alot of that stuff from those formative experiences color and shape who you are ..."
This is true. But in the past your intentions were probably different and that may account for the strangeness with which we look upon them some few years ahead. Things you have done, said (or eated...lol) may have shaped you are (accurate word there) but I'm not sure they "make who you are". And that's interesting, because you know as years go by you will look upon things differently. Hopefully it will all make sense in the end. If it doesn't, heck, there won't be any time left to worry about it anyway.
- ********0
What blew my mind was the fact that Eco bases his investigation on a simple question, following Leibniz : "why is there more of something than nothing?" - implying that it is really more comfortable about life being dominated by the fact that there is nothing, than by the fact that there is evidently something. This without even entering the "God" question, which is irrelevant anyway because the idea of God is also the idea of Being (just as Self). He even jokes about it, saying that one man once was asked if he believed in God and he replied: "No, I believe in something much greater."
- line 3, reads = more comfortable to think about life...********
- line 3, reads = more comfortable to think about life...
- TheBlueOne0
However, if one listens to physicists these days their question about the nature of the universe would be "why is there more of nothing than something?" and I find that a much more interesting and meaningful question, as to me, life is about spaces - the space that allows the something to interact - it allows realtionships in otherwords....
- "space" is most of my life too, but the universe is probably not about us.********
- Or, even that nothing that allows interaction is about something.********
- "space" is most of my life too, but the universe is probably not about us.
- ********0
We hear the physicists (and dude I love physics) but why do they use the word "nothing"? Is it really no-thing or something they can't properly describe yet? Also, if I remember correctly there's a young astro-physicist from NY (can't remember his name, but he's in String theory) who is exploring new ideas of what the universe is made of, including that "nothing".
- well, whatever it is, it is different fomr the normal something...TheBlueOne
- maybe. "looks" like it is but you also know that between observation and reality there is a space for conjecture.********
- I remember the name know: Lee Smolin. Really worth checking his stuff if you're interested. He has the advantage...********
- ... rare advantage of being able explaining his work in terms that non-physicists (such as I) can really understand.********
- molo0
there is no such thing as nothing
- there's is zero.********
- but even zero does something.********
- zero is like a placeholder in our number system and a representation of the abstract concept of 'not'KwesiJ
- if you have no freinds then your number of friends is zero.KwesiJ
- Ah, but if you don't have friends you won't have enemies either. so zero is something.********
- there's is zero.
- TheBlueOne0
Corvo you 'jacked my thread bro...I'm contemplating and riffing on personal mortality and you get into Wittgenstein and shit. You're not close to 40 are you? This is far far too existential...I'm trying to be concrete here...
- Sorry. not intended. I'm 37, I was just trying to think ahead and find a fucking solution :P********
- :)TheBlueOne
- Sorry. not intended. I'm 37, I was just trying to think ahead and find a fucking solution :P
- ********0
The funny thing is that we always explain reality with words. The notion of zero was introduced by Arab mathematicians in Europe, suppressed or carefully removed by Medieval theology and it was only in the 16th century, or later with physics, that "nothing" as we commonly understand now became a philosophical concept. So most of what we perceive is about how we phrase it, and that may affect theoretical-physics too, because who can tell if your model is Reality or an askew observation by the limits of your question? You can say that's why physics must be proven experimentally. That's true. But has anyone ever proved that "nothing" exists?
This, of course, doesn't invalidates the fact that we die (that was the original matter of this post). But that has nothing to do with nothing or life being useless.
- epigraph0
You have to plan for the future and live in the moment, because there is NOTHING but the moment. Nothing revolutionary, it's just good to keep things in perspective.
I've also learned not to try and manufacture the moment. The best experiences in my life occurred when I wasn't trying too hard.
When I've tried too hard to create an enjoyable experience, I've been dissapointed. I think we all have.
- KwesiJ0
experience is what you get when you're looking for something else
- TheBlueOne0
I left and was playing some blues on the guitar. felt better...
- ********0
That's true epigraph, but I think TBO was saying that even now, our minds are riddled with and within the past and you evaluate your present happiness and welfare accordingly to what you have conceived in the past for this present moment. That's how you evaluate stuff (I mean, that's how I evaluate). I don't really believe that the moment is all. Some plans do not work just because you've made them, some circumstances are above it.
That's why I stepped in and mildly 'jacked TBO's thread: because your life is more complicated than that. I think the key-word here is fulfilment. So I've heard. I do not feel fulfilled, and I don't think most people do these days - which is also an erroneous question... Why would anyone feel fulfilled at 40 with so much to wish for? See. It's our common-sense (and western society praise-the-young imagery) that tells you you must be well-off and completed by 35. Does that make any sense to you? Sure as hell makes no sense to me. You see, that fucking troubles me - more and more people of my generation (I'm not excluding myself) start to feel old at 40. WTF is this? Just when you get your powers and abilities straight you're suddenly useless overnight? My parents are now considering themselves going "old" at 65 and we consider ourselves going old on 40's? There's something wrong about this western society and I think it is those fucking ads with nice chicks. Capitalism promotes youth, easy-living and welfare, but I think it is a fucking lie. I'm a liberal person and do not wish to live under theocratic or marxist rule, but in the West there's this horrible trend of considering ageing people not so worthy as a 20-30 yr old ignorant. You can't get a fucking job over 35 - you're looked upon as "too old" for the firm. To old for what? A career? Who wants a fucking career these days?
I think the trouble is, the West is basing its economy in shallow, irrelevant stuff - so companies want more and more younger crews to make it look like a fucking merry-go-round. That's why people feel old at 40.
I ask, is this fair? Just when you could have a better learned professional - and a better learned society - you dish it and look for another intern?
Sorry for the long post, but I had to get it out of my chest.
- I hope that was concrete enough, my friend TBO :)********
- I hope that was concrete enough, my friend TBO :)
- KwesiJ0
40 is the new 30
- ********0
- chossy0
You get born you keep your head down then you die.
- muther o' beasts, bamboozlin tae the wits o' inquest itsel'.********
- muther o' beasts, bamboozlin tae the wits o' inquest itsel'.
- BonSeff0
get after it homie!
- ********0
Noobs, you go ponder on nothingness then if you wish. Look:
- neue75_bold0
I have nothing to add...
- which I guess, is something...neue75_bold
- thank you, and goodnight..neue75_bold
- maybe it was nothing, but I bid you goodnight.********
- maybe it wasn't anything...neue75_bold
- now, "any" "thing"... isn't that like "no" "thing"? Fuck me, I'm confused. J/K I am not.********
- wasn't any thing = it was nothing.
it is nothing = it is naught.
I don't think any language puts well with null. It's not a natural entity.******** - much effort on it's contradictions, but the fact remains that "null", "nulo", "zero", "naught", "nada" are the oddest words in any Western language.********
- the most intriguing words (because they relate to no thing) in western vocabulary.********
- My thesis is ... yr words affect how you look upon reality. Can you interpret beyond the apparel given to you?********
- Maybe you can I don't know. Goodnight.********
- ********0
I have nothing to add aswell.
e2-e4.