Lisbon Treaty
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- rafalski
EU constitution, turned down in referendums by the French and Dutch got rebadged to a "treaty" so that it wouldn't have to be be voted for by people, only politicians in 26 of 27 EU countries. It is supposed to go smoothly this time: "don't ask the people because they don't want it".
Ireland is the only one to hold a referendum, this Thursday.
The treaty is supposed to create European Union as a legal entity, with a president. It gives the powerless so far EU parliament ruling power above national parliaments. It takes away national veto power on most issues and opens a way to create an EU army.
Interesting, what the Irish referendum outcome will be. A 'no' means back to the drawing board.
- kodap0
I'd vote NO
- imnotadesigner0
its just like that movie zeitgiest man Im telling you. Soon you'll have micro chips implanted into you.
- sikma0
I'm no expert on the political landscape of the EU. But for reason I doubt this will pass.
- doesnotexist0
so it'd be like the united states vs. the european states for ww3, right?
- imnotadesigner0
but then theres the asian states and african states
- imnotadesigner0
in 100 years there gonna be like 3 countries, thats it.
Europe, America and Asia- australia & NZ?antoine_101
- < sure, just no people around to enjoy them.Bleip
- google trilateral commisionbliznutty
- Corvo0
At first, left-centre groups were against the EU and horn-piped about political autonomy, close-industrial disadvantages and all, and most people called them retrogrades and compared them to fascist protectionists. Now it's the right-centre groups who are afraid of expanding their own liberal ideals into a more effective political market, and the left is totally quiet.
Funny? It is funny, but I don't understand what's going on any more.
- Ever read "What's Left?: How Liberals Lost Their Way" by Nick Cohen?rounce
- boobs0
Does the EU have an army? How many divisions?
If only the individual countries have armies, that will tell you how significant the EU is right there.
- hedge0
What's next? Quoting oil in Euros? Madness.
- Vicentvangogh0
I vote maybe
- ninjasavant0
I vote take down those damn signs.
- ninjasavant0
whats up rafalski? thanks for showing me around in Dublin. You're a political thread starter and a gentleman.
:D
- Haha.. did you manage to find a good Irish tattoo artist?rafalski
- we spent too much of our time trying to find our way around to find anything specific.ninjasavant
- did the rental have a "links fahren" sticker?rafalski
- bolus0
vote yes.
- mikotondria30
The people that sell you your food, your oil and your money are far more powerful in your life than any politicians can be. Politicians only get one vote from you every few years, and only a small amount of your income as taxes.
A very small number of large entities get the rest, and it's almost impossible to stop powering them whilst still living in society and using money.
This treaty is their attempt to further homogenise their domains and allow for the easier, more secure and swifter flow of capital.
A european army ? So what ? No one european nation's army can effectively do squat against any other without the back-up of all the others, and the will to use them will be manipulated by said mega-corporations anyway.
It would appear that were this to go ahead local power will be devolved to people that speak different languages and live slightly further away, whilst the reality would be that that 'further away' would not seem as different, nor would it be.
Imagine a europe 100, 200 years in the future - is it more unified, or not ? The answer is that it is, so this can be done now, or left to the next generations to do.- as soon as there's a european army there will be a war for them to fight in. somewhere far away probably.oozie
- hedge0
It sounds to me like you're just against large corporations period.
- large corporations are the ones that get away with shits and bends the laws. mid size and small can't.akrokdesign
- True.A large corporation could chew you up and spit out the dust, and you'd have no chance, hedge.mikotondria3
- mikotondria30
Mm..yes and no, Mr H..
I would be a fool to say that I disapproved of them totally, as I all too readily give them my money in return for the benefits of their scale, however the way that they use this power to disrupt the process of democracy in this and every other country leaves much to be desired.
I have no problem with the idea of eg Oil companies making massive profits from the rise in crude prices - hey, if the demand for my services went up I'd be the 1st to take advantage and count the cash, but as our own Claire McCaskill pointed out yesterday, why they continue to fuel that profit with tax breaks paid for by every one of us, whether we buy their product directly or not irks me.
My real bug bear with is with how large corporations operate, not the principles of their operation.
All too frequently they bully and manipulate people.
- rafalski0
How Irish.. Voting closed, but there are no exit polls, all the country watched Poland get kicked out of the euro2008 in pubs.
Who gives a shit about the referendum, what's done is done and we'll find out eventually..
Actually that's quite a healthy approach.