Kerning (™,)
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- 5timuli
Anyone know what the done thing is here? Do you kern the comma to it's regular position (without the ™) or to a certain point below the ™? What about spacing afterwards?
*awaits "whatever looks best" comments*
- Jaline0
This is like a "grammar of typography" question.
- Spookytim0
Has there been another typographic murder?
- Raniator0
(",)
- Spookytim0
Don't kern the comme underneath the TM. If in doubt imagine its metal type, where all the rules came from. The closest it could possibly get is to the right of the TM mark's body, so don;t squindge it in, it would look wong.
- vanilla_cam0
(.)(.)
- Dr_Rand0
whatever the computer says is best
- Jaline0
Don't put it underneath.
- 5timuli0
Spooky, surely by those rules you wouldn't kern T and period, which is kind of common practice nowadays... ?
- gramme0
I kern the comma or period under the ™ but make sure the ™ (or ®) is closer to the word in question than the comma. I find that depending on the font, typing a comma then ™ and kerning the ™ in to minus 300 points looks good.
- this is what I do. Comma then scoot the TM in closeflashbender
- gramme0
I've always been told that with trademarks, you tuck your punctuation. Elsewhere, you hang your punctuation. You just need to make sure it doesn't look like your comma or period is part of the trademarked name.
- gramme0
Spooky, is it not true that ™ and ® are symbols that came into being after the waning of metal type? Haven't they only been around since photo-composition type?
- Spookytim0
"Spooky, surely by those rules you wouldn't kern T and period, which is kind of common practice nowadays... ?"
Sorry 5timuli, I don't understand? If you are saying about closing the gap between a full point and a T, I would never kern the gap so the body of the fullpoint would be within the body of the T, I would close them up so that vertically the full point 'butts up' visually to the furthest aspect of the T.
(Might have misunderstood though)
- 5timuli0
Not within the body of the T but as close to the sidebearing as possible. T and . is a common kerning pair in electronic fonts.
- gramme0
- I think it is grammatically correct, but it seems like the trademark includes the comma too...Jaline
- This definitely looks nice, but I believe it is more American than British.Jaline
- I made two posts using the same words over again. Apologies :)Jaline
- BRITISHIST!!!gramme
- I hate you Jaline.
//inhaler97 - that's how i do it.Ampersanderson
- I'm with gramme on this one. British or not, it's a nice looking solution.brains
- 5timuli0
- all them look shitkelpie
- ;)kelpie
- 1 and 2 are logo composition placements not body typesetting. Example 3 is "traditionally" correct.Spookytim
- I'm with spooky on this one. 3 is correct for paragraph placement.YAYPaul
- But when would you have a comma in a logo?5timuli
- definitely not number 1, 2nd one and 3rd look closer, but not right yet eitheremecks
- agree with Spooky pretty much, if anything slightly closer..emecks
- Spookytim0
I would guess that TM and R symbols were cast in hot metal also, but that's beside the point. The rules of what looks right and therefore what looks wrong were established in an age of solid metal type on inflexible bodies, and those rules have remained as the guiding principles even though typesetting has evolved. Rules are flexible now obviously. Its fashionable to track type much closer than tradition would allow, but I personally would draw the line at setting charcaters within the domain of other characters... give or a take a bit of visual license.
That's just my belief. I'm the son of a hot metal printer, its in my blood.
Now then young man, fetch my slippers and warm the commode, I feel a bowel movement coming on.
- kelpie0
call me a pervert, but I prefer the third one there
- gramme0
"He who would letterspace type would steal sheep." —Frederic Goudy
(I think he meant paragraph type)
Spooky, I agree there is too much negative kerning out there these days. Believe me, I'm all about tradition and proper time-tested typography!
- gramme0
So is the consensus here that I am wrong?
*Goes back to school
- kelpie0
in the flow of text I think The Gramme Method would look a little strange, wouldn't you have to increase the word space past the TM anyway, making a larger space after the comma than normal, making it look artificially tucked?