Interesting OBEY Viewpoint
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- leadtrum
http://www.art-for-a-change.com/…
While I'm actually okay if an artist appropriates images and uses their original meaning or form in a new light to convey a message, a lot of these examples show straight copies.
I'm not fully convinced by the article but its an interesting discussion.
What do you guys think?
- ornj0
I think a lot of those images are reproduced in a tongue in cheek sort of way. You're supposed to recognize them as some political propaganda which has been given a new meaning.
- capsize0
you are supposed to think for yourself.
- leadtrum0
Its a discussion board. People have these things called discussions on here. Its crazy, I know.
- Meeklo0
I dont know what to say.
The guy is talented, in a "sampling" sort of way, he takes some one else's work and then gives it his own signature style.
I was one of the many that liked his work at first and now I feel that while its not bad, it doesn't interest me anymore.I have to admit a lot of those images are way to similar to previous works by some other talented people. I think if had a sentence recognizing the original artist It will be all good.
Just like you see in music releases "track contains sample from so and so tune, courtesy of so and so records"
- The article mentions it and I really agree. Its a simple as a byline.leadtrum
- GreedoLives0
Say what you will, he's an excellent craftsman, a master silkscreener.
- excellent craftsman, really? What is he crafting? What makes it excellent?arthur
- ever seen one up close? and i meant as in, master of his craft, silkscreening.GreedoLives
- sure, seen plenty up close, used to live in SF. Not feeling the love tho.arthur
- Who do you feel is a good silkscreener? For comparison's sake...GreedoLives
- tom marioni? since he lives in SFcapsize
- Marioni, yes. don't dig his work, but he's a craftsman. Lunched w'him and Kathan Brown.arthur
- harlequino0
I come from a more "fine" art and performance background and since I've been involved in design, I notice there seems to be a 'prissier' sensibility in the more commercial art or graphic design world about who steals who's material. People get really uppity and prickly about it. I don't think one channel of art is necessarily better or more relevant then the other (that's a volume of discussion unto itself), but I do think they have different contexts and functions. It seems ironic that in a field (graphic design) where people discuss innovation a whole lot, that the field feeds more off of trend and recycling of ideas, at least on a daily basis. Just my take on it, but I guess my point is - who cares what this guy lifts from other sources. That's kind of the point in the first place. He's talented, yeah, and there's some neat stuff, but I don't find his work particularly interesting enough to wax that philisophical about it.
- univers0
Hopefully he has excellent Lawyers!
I am a big fan of people like Cindy Sherman. But I don't think Shepard Ferry has the level of sophisticated dialogue like most appropriation based artists/ authors do. Frankly I was let down with Mr. Ferry.
- univers0
Harlequino,
I forget the big copyright dispute quote to be exact or who said it, but the act of taking something creative and making it better is great. This stance to me is what design is in a lot of ways. Shepard really doesnt have the meat to back up these kind of potatoes. If you know what I mean. And your point I agree with!
Ill look for that source and see if I can post it.
- ukit0
Harlequino makes a good point. I also feel that when you look back on Warhol and Lichtenstein and people from the pop art movement who appropriated stuff, they were almost always taking something lowbrow whether it was Mickey Mouse or Campbells soup cans and making it into conceptual art by adding an extra layer of meaning, for instance by subverting or critiquing the original piece.
Whereas with SF's work, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of thought put into it. For instance, taking the Industrial Workers of the World artwork and adding a lightening bolt to it, is about as far as a lot of these go. Or the piece with the dollar bill (on his site) that he says represents the "two sides of capitalism, good and bad." I'd be happier about him using stuff from the past if there was some kind of point to it I guess.
- t_rock0
The author was so quick to praise Lichtenstein's use of images, but condemns Fairey's as plagiarism. They both appropriated previous artwork and changed the meanings. No biggy. The one thing I find funny, is that he's making a fortune off of people buying clothing.
- Does he own that clothing brand or does he just get royalties?leadtrum
- harlequino0
Yes, t_rock, but I don' think this is a simple "well that guy does it so why can't I" type of situation. As ukit alludes, there is a certain richness and feeling of being tapped into a zeitgeist with people like Warhol and Lichtenstein, that doesn't seem to happen here.
Perhaps and interesting byproduct of this specific issue is an even greater validation of early pop art. In retrospect, if we can point at a peculiar brilliance in Warhol aping soup cans when in the past you might have said "it's a just a damn soup can," perhaps since many of us feel there isn't much to even argue about with this new guy, it reveals an even sublime genius and social commentary in Warhol and Lichtenstein. Just an idea.
- t_rock0
Of course, when speaking to sublime genius, shouldn't we really give credit to Duchamp then? I think Warhol and Lichtenstein followed that train of thought set by pieces like Duchamp's urinal. When is an object art? Is it art?
- exador10
change the name Shepard Fairey to Timbaland, and add some hot chicks and beats, and suddenly we don't have a problem...
atleast i don't...i like hot chicks and beats....
i've got no idea where this is going...kinda started off thinking i'd say something interesting about how timbaland does stuff like this with music ..whats the difference...
then i kinda got sidetracked...what are we talking about anyways?...
oh yeah...Timbaland....
cool beats man...ex
- Timbaland straight up steals.. at least this guy changes the colors a bit.Meeklo
- exador10
actually...to totally hijack this thread...oddly enough, a friend of mine is the original producer of that appologize song...if you listen to that, then listen to Timbalands 'version' of it...wow...thats fucked... timbaland adds his 'hey' sound effect and suddenly its a timbaland track?...ooookay......now THAT is kinda ridiculous...
- stoplying0
"Just like you see in music releases "track contains sample from so and so tune, courtesy of so and so records" - Meeklo
Yeah, he's like the equivalent of sampling in music. Cool but not totally from scratch. Word.
- harlequino0
Who the hell is Timbaland? Though that was a boot brand.
- t_rock0
yeah, they're big with the kids - the boots, that is.
- Studiospooky0
Wasn't the point with Fairey always the fact that he put this stuff up rather than what the stuff actually was. I never thought he had a specific message, just a fetish for messaging, and I never thought he was doing it to gain respect for his artistic skills but for his prolific paste-up and love of propaganda as an abstract concept. I've never evaluated him for his art skill. He's more like a guerilla ad man with nothing to sell than an artist.