Independence for Scotland
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- RustyBadge
Is it actually going to happen??
- kelpie0
no
- FrdmOfSpch0
the EU wont allow it.
- ********0
as if the UK cares about the EU.
- Nairn0
Hmm. Interesting take, frdmfspch - here was me thinking that the EU umbrella actually increased the likelihood of states breaking away from parent-unions and strengthened the resolve of populist breakaway voices - as has been seen in Scotland as well as Catalonia, the Basque country, Andalucia, Sardinia and numerous other European locations.
- FrdmOfSpch0
that is irrelevant Witt.
Scotland's entire bid for independence is predicated on the assumption that it will automatically become a full independent EU member.
However all the EUs states are opposed to this as it would set a dangerous precedent for countries like Spain, Italy, Greece etc. who are dealing with their own nationalist movements. Especially Spain vis-a-vis the Basque region.
Scotland will be forced to apply for membership like any other country through a long and arduous process, well after discussions with Turkey have taken place. Could take 20 if not 30 years considering the state of EU internal impasse.
It is impractical for Scotland to cut it self off from its partners like that for a generation.
And there's not enough north sea oil to keep it going in the meantime.
- FrdmOfSpch0
in fact Scotland parachuting into full membership would unravel all the federal states of Europe - France, Germany etc... and create a europe of principalities and cantons. Could solve the issue of state sovereignty that is holding back full integration in one fell swoop.
this will never ever ever be allowed to happen, ever.
no exceptions will be made for the scots.
- rafalski0
do you speak gaelic, kelpie? is it as common as catalan in barcelona?
young irish don't speak their gaelic version despite being taught at school for years. i guess they would need the brits back to rethink it
- RustyBadge0
Scotland don't really make a lot of cash from the oil it has on it's shores anyway. As I understand it, it's owned by American companies.
- Nairn0
"Could solve the issue of state sovereignty that is holding back full integration in one fell swoop."
And there's the thing, eh?
//Can't recall ever hearing any seccesionist rumblings in Germany - looks like the bastards have finally found a way to dilute European member-state sovereignty and thereby peacefully enforce their millennial reich wank-fantasies after a 50 year lull.
- Nairn0
*joins KingJulien in tarring our German cousins with a huge 60 year old brush...
- FrdmOfSpch0
//Can't recall ever hearing any seccesionist rumblings in Germany - looks like the bastards have finally found a way to dilute European member-state sovereignty and thereby peacefully enforce their millennial reich wank-fantasies after a 50 year lull.
Nairn
(Apr 24 07, 03:26)you obviously don't know enough.
- ********0
jazx?
- kelpie0
FoS, your EU chat is nonsense, its propaganda from unionist parties, its only cropped up recently. Scotland would have no problems entering the EU.
The Spain thing is different, Spain is not made up of a genuine federal conglomerate of formerly sovereign states, they are 'just' regions (whether this is right or not is another question - as far as I am aware Iberia was never divided into kingdoms which match the current dissenting regions - the UK is a unique case)
Gaelic is not widely spoken here, no, I don't despite pretending on here that I do - I was taught it for about 10 years in school though.
Scotland won't become independent any time soon because the majority of voting Scots don't agree with it. The SNP may become the majority party in the Scots Parliament this time because Labour are losing a lot of the vote for the reasons they will in a general election.
A non uk governing party in majority control of the SP could be an interesting test for regionalised gov in the UK though. It may be the case that Lib Dem and Lab join up to form an unpopular minority-based coalition, btw, never a good thing.
We'll see.
- OBBTKN0
Yes kelpie... you are not right.
Spain in the past was divided into Kingdoms.
- OBBTKN0
And personally... is not desirable another segregation in the EU.
"Our" country has suffered alot for getting "some" beneffits.
But the price to pay is not desirable, for nobody, believe me
- ********0
The Spain thing is different, Spain is not made up of a genuine federal conglomerate of formerly sovereign states...
kelpie
(Apr 24 07, 03:43)that's not exactly true. Not sure about catalunya but the Iberian Peninsula was composed of sovereign states kingdoms (Leon, Navarra, Aragon, Asturies (included part of Galiza), Portugal, Castilla (then Castilla-León), etc. The thing is they were merged by marriages. Even Portugal became part of Spain during 40 years because Philip II inherited the throne.
- lowimpakt0
The european commission opened up offices to deal with Scottish and Welsh interests following the devolution process. Someone should call them up.
I imagine the accession process would have to be reviewed and conducted like any other prospective member state. Scotland would not be in the same institutional and economic position as it currently.
I think the concerns would be for institutional stability in Scotland and the UK rather than on a European level.
- lowimpakt0
But the price to pay is not desirable, for nobody, believe me
OBBTKN
(Apr 24 07, 03:48)
--------------what do you mean?
- kelpie0
guys, that's what I meant - I didn't meant to belittle any claims for independence from Catalonia or the Basque (I lived in Barcelona, I know how strongly they feel, and sympathise).
I meant that "Catalonia" wasn't the 'kingdom of Catalonia' directly before "Spain" came into being and hasn't continued as a separate entity within a whole as the nations of the UK have.
The "UK" is not a country in a normal sense, it has always been a group of 4 countries - this is what makes its constituent states a curiously different case from places like Spain. Were we the same, we would be called "Britain" and have no internal borders.
Catalans have it far worse than us. The UK suffers from some popular misconceptions and old fashioned conventions of government, but Scotland has never been subsumed into a whole and stripped of its separate identity.
Is Aragon or Navarra claiming for independence from Spain, for example?
see what I'm getting at? didn't mean to insult anyone.
A lot of Catalans would talk about Scotland and Catalonia being the same, it was difficult explain the differences.
- Nairn0
you obviously don't know enough.
FrdmOfSpch
(Apr 24 07, 03:38)I don't pretend to, either - nor can you tell when someone's trying to make a funny ('trying' being the operative..).