Non-Binding Resolutions
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- PonyBoy
...
... what is the fucking point of wasting time to come up w/a resolution...
... even though it's considered 'non-binding'...
... why?
- TheBlueOne0
i think of it as the final shot across the bow of the sinking USS GW BUSH to straighten out it's course and pull into the harbor...or else crash onto the rocks.
But then again..these are gutless politicians we're talking about...
- PonyBoy0
you're right...
... making a 'non-binding resolution' is PURE gutlessness and a mad-waste of yours and my money, blueOne... would you agree?
If the dems had a set of balls... they'd stop dicking around and DEFUND the war...
SHIT or get off the pot... good grief.
- TheBlueOne0
I basically agree...but these are rough waters these guys are sailing in..politics is never that smooth, as you know.....as I said above I think there incrementally pushing forward on this, getting all the ducks in the row, etc...making the sell to the US public..
- PonyBoy0
it is a testy situation...
... but they're 'dicking around' more than setting up their first increment in a series of steps...
... I think they need to be much more clear about what they're up to... cuz it's shady the way they're going about it.
- TheBlueOne0
I don't think it's "shady", but I do wish they were more aggressive..I mean that was essentially THE point of the Nov 06 elections. It was won by the Dems on the War issue, and I think peolpe will lose patience quickly with the process if nothing is done in a more timely manner...besides my heart goes out to those guys on their fourth fucking tour of duty in that hellhole...bring the boys fucking home..
- mrdobolina0
ponyboy, where was your outrage in the 4 years of republican control when they refused to allow any debate over it at all?
hmmmmmmm? ;)
- PonyBoy0
you nailed it, BlueOne...
... the boys/girls on their tours are the ones who must be feeling rather confused/upset...
... I say 'shady' because it's not 'clear' what their end-goal is...
... do they want out of Iraq all-together... do they want to find a way to stabilize the situation etc?...
All I'm getting is that they don't like the present course... but they're not providing any SOLUTION to save face and leave Iraq 'stable' (lol @ even thinking that it's possible to stabilize a 'religious' situation)...
bah... I'm going to keep typing in circles here... cuz I'm irritated.
I'd like to bring the fellas/ladies home too... but not if it means leaving the situation left 'up to the wind'...
- PonyBoy0
ponyboy, where was your outrage in the 4 years of republican control when they refused to allow any debate over it at all?
hmmmmmmm? ;)
mrdobolina
(Feb 16 07, 12:36)
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Dude... dobs...... now they have their chance to 'debate' this... and what do they do to start?...
... they dick around w/a 'non-binding' agreement.
See... the dems never seem to make any decisions, dude...
... they bitch and moan and talk... but don't decide. The 'pubs (at least in the current admin) seem to make decisions that they 'feel' are right and don't bother w/public opinion polls etc (or worry about their own egos in the process by making a 'politically incorrect decision')...
this 'non-binding resolution' is nothing more than an extended conversation w/ZERO active results other than 'a lot of talk'...
... they (the dems) might as well have posted a thread on NT - because that's all the good their 'resolution' is for... reading it/talking about it...
... but nothing set in motion other than a lot of continuous yapping...
- TheBlueOne0
Iraq will not be stable, no matter what. The "pandora's box" of internicene strife and civil war has been opened, and there's no fucking power on the planet that's going to stick that genie back in the bottle. There is "no job" to get down over there for our guys, other than to be practice dummies for new insurgent strategies.
Even stupidier is drawing Iran into the scenario..and as the Congress seems to go in circles with this whole Iraq resolution nonsense me fears that Commander Codpiece will statr dropping bombs on Iran...
A clusterfuck of truly historical proportions..even the fucking generals are coming this close to insubordination to make this point..
And I say that as a student of military history and not as independent voter of progressive leanings,,
- TheBlueOne0
Ponyboy, I'm not sure this is a Dem/Rep issue per se..I think if the shoe was reversed the Reps would have an equally glacial approach - it's just the nature of our legislative system..
That said, I think the Bush admin has made some serious breaches of the Seperation of Powers doctrine and Congress should be whipping the Executive back into it's proper constitutional box..starting with the clear deliniation of the War Powers..
Cause last I checked we don't have a declared war going on anywhere..
- PonyBoy0
*swallows pride :)
I agree, BlueOne...
... Iraq's a clusterFart...
... and I think the current Speeches on Iran are recycled speeches on Iraq...
... just w/the 'q' changed to 'n'.
Now - given what I just said... I still think MAD-ACTION... preemptive at that... still needz to occur in order to ensure another U.S. 9/11 doesn't occur...
... but fucking around w/'talk' (the dems) and 'holding the course/increasing the force' (the 'pubs) are both truly gonna keep the clusterFuck rolling...
personally... I think there are way too many hands in the sink at the moment... and instead of washing the 'fine china'... it's all getting broken/chipped etc...
(if that illy makes any sense)...
- TheBlueOne0
PonyBoy, I tip my hat to your swallowing of pride. And I concur we need some serious thinking about how to really fight the war on terror (Brit model in N. Ireland seems the smartest but on a different scale of course..)
But it just seems like there is going to be no change for the next two years as Bush sits in the White House and everyone else spins wheels and webs for the future..
It's a serious mess...I'm almost hoping for a return of citizen power in the forms of action from State Legislatures taking the lead on the issue - which seems to be beginning to happen, but still that will take time...
- mrdobolina0
They need to de-fund it.
I understand that, but really where was your outrage when the republican majority was debating fucking flag burning before the election. It is a hell of a double standard my man. his congress seriously has gotten more done in 100 hours than the republican majority did in years. Years dude.
- PonyBoy0
dobs... are you trying to start a fight with me?
i fucking swallowed my pride... have admitted many times (not only in the thread) that I feel Iraq is a cluster fuck etc...
... what's it take to make you happy, Dobs?
- mrdobolina0
Im not starting a fight. just saying that double standard you got going there is messed up.
- TheBlueOne0
Dobs, You know I'm with you, but I'm giving PB the benefit of the doubt here - he's having a major cranium rearrangement going on here...they'll be plenty of time to go over past mistakes..recriminations never get us anywhere positive..
- mrdobolina0
I know I know I know.
Sorry, they need to de-fund this war. But you know what is going to happen if/when they do? The attack ads in 2008 will be legendary, "the dems lost the war because they wouldn't support the troops".
you know it, I know it, the world fucking knows it. That is why it is a non-binding resolution.
- lemmys_wart0
... what is the fucking point of wasting time to come up w/a resolution...
checks and balances motherfucker.
i want to know where our elected leaders stand.
it's called accountabliity.
and it's about time americans are held to it.
- PonyBoy0
recriminat ions never get us anywhere positive..
TheBlueOne
(Feb 16 07, 13:18)
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Exactly.Not to mention, dobs... I don't seem to remember arguing flag burning w/you etc... nor even talking about 'other' domestic issues w/you lately...
... seriously... dobs... :) I have a feeling that no matter what I say... even if I 'agree' with you... you're still going to want me to almost get on my knees and say 'I'm wrong and have been wrong'.
- TheBlueOne0
How much traction do you think those ads will have? Does anyone really think staying in Iraq is a good idea?
I'm a realist...on the terrorism front, you know what? The US WILL be hit again..will it be as bad as 9/11 ? maybe, could be, who knows..but to proceed that we won't be attacked here is folly.
Now, political hay will be made about linking whatever that will be with Iraq - but truth is, much like Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, pulling out of Iraq or staying there will have nothig to do with any future attack (other than the assinine decision to invade in the first place)..
America - especially it's leadership - has to take the fucking short-term political blinders off - and the sooner this Karl Rove fabricated political cultural divide manure can be shelved can Americans of all politicla stripes actually start to work together with steel eyed pragmatism (what Americans historically used to be good at) at dealing with terrorism, oil and nuclear proliferation..
I've said it before - I actually miss the old time conservatism in this country - sure we'd fight tooth and nail over some issues, but ther was always an ability to work eventually towards a common goal..all this "culture war" bullshit has to end...