Negotiate or not?
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- andsz
Ok.. so i have this offer from a large ad agency... but it seems low... i was hoping for 70 - 80K and i got a little under 60K... negotiate or not? what does it mean?
- SirLawrence0
it means you need to check other salaries that other agencies offer to a similar position and see if it is you who had the wrong idea about the apy, or they who are cheap.
Many large ad agencies only pay their top dogs the mulah. The others need to see it from a "hey we are a cool name for your resume" angle.
If they do pay under market average, just point that out to them. But not in a negotiating way, I would just bring this up and ask what their position is on this. If you make them adjust it cuz you ask for market value, they don't/shouldn't see this as a personal demand.
Owh, and though money is important = wanting to do the job is more important. Wanting to be at that agency is more important. If the job sucks and the agency atmo blows, even a good paycheck won't make you happy.
good luck & congrats.
- kyl30
you should always counter the offer
- SirLawrence0
don't agree as such, countering the offer for the sake of countering it will be very obvious to HR of any agency. It is not as if they do not know their offer would be under what others offer. If it is, ask why.
Example; I worked at a large 4a as an SD for 3 years, and was underpaid. But their senior creatives and directors were very good, and the agency knew it. they rather invested in these guys. They told me this upfront. And yes; having their name on my resume, with the rep they had, did open doors elsewhere.
countering out of principal may be nice for ur own ego and esteem. But large agencies see and hear it every other day. If they think you ask out ofpersonal reasons, you aint gonna get it.
- backwards0
ask for what you are worth. ad agencies have the money, but they are a business like any other and will likely take you for whatever they can get you for.
- andsz0
the position is a step up in job title to from SD to AD... still... i think i should be paid AD average pay rather than SD? no?
- kyl30
If they want YOU, they will consider the counter, if they just want a warm body to do their biddings then turn and run.
If you don't get their respect up front, don't expect anything down the line.
- negg0
Im not a expert on this topic, but I had a similar problem once as well,
I decided to accept what was given since I am still pretty new in this industry, so for me it was a big door opener,
although had I decided to stay the whole negotiation thing worked out in some respect, more of a compromise, you work for a couple of months (maybe just probationary) if they like your work then they should boost your pay to the industry standard.
- SirLawrence0
exactly
ad agencies are mercenaries too = if they consider you this shit, you wouldn't be posting this question cuz they'd pay you the big money. If you consider yourself the shit, but they don't - yet - then propose to them that you work a probation period under their conditions, and if you gel with their senior creatives and gel with the client projects, and if they are convinced that you are for real, then you get your conditions.
My guess is they offer you this package now a) cuz it is a new position for you and you have to prove your worth b) cuz they anticipate you will counter. If you profile yourself as career minded and present as being fair to all parties (it's all in the sell, baby), they will not see you as one of those hotshot-know-it-all-fresh designers who has a chip on his shoulder. You wouldn't believe how many times we hear "but my friend gets this much", or "but I think I am worth much more".
If the agency (and their senior creatives and their portfolio) is worth your talent, find a middle road, cuz chances are that the agency sees it the same way.
- not_lebowski0
say "I'm just looking for a job"
- SirLawrence0
bottomline = they are not going to do you any favors, nor should you expect it. Debate your worth and find what works out for both parties.
If in the end they do not pay you what you think you are worth, then decline the offer - gracefully. Don;t burn a bridge over it, cuz you're likely bumping in to the same people and same scenarios elsewhere too.
- kyl30
either be the shit or except the pittance
- backwards0
SirLawrence, so lemme guess; you're underpaid?
- tkmeister0
how much experience you have?
some agencies treat ADs like a Sr Designer, or even worse, just a designer.
60k in chicago area with no previous AD experience? if you are confident, ask for more. if not, ask for 6month performance review for a potential raise.
- SirLawrence0
no, I am not. But been there, got the t-shirt.
There is just so much more to review other than the pay. Is the agency portfolio good for yours? Is their junior staff any good? Is their senior creative staff any good? What accounts are you working on = newly aquired ones or retainer? Are you replacing a dude or is this a new position, blah blah...
Sure agencies have the money; does that have to mean to shell it out just because you ask for it? Probation is a good way here = to see if you fit in with the agency, and to see if the agency fits with you. If you propose this to who ever you talk to, you propose a business/career oriented offer. If you ask for money cuz you figure you can milk them, they will milk you. Agencies are marketing driven, overhead guided workplaces. As an AD you haven't got that much leverage, but you're in a position to go earn it.
So go earn it :-P
- backwards0
bollocks.
in the ad world, the more you think you're worth the more you're actually worth.
- MrShadow0
sorry - had to change the nick...
I do have a signinficant experience (5yrs) with web / print projects - major brands / Fortune 50 / 500 clients
so far thesa are the options:
1) take it for what it is and do not negotiate - try to earn status before asking for money (never really worked for me)
2) negotiate but not for personal reasons and in no negotiating way - professional only (ask why the salary offered is below average pay + ask how can I get where I want to be salary-wise)
3) simply negotiate - ask for what i want and hope for the best (damn.. I hate gambling...)
i do have another offer on a table... so there is always plan B...
Any thoughts? Vote?
- backwards0
3.
if they dont accept the counter, ask why, think about it, make a decision. simple.
- kyl30
seriously if you don't counter, don't expect a raise or respect
- canuck0
Never hurts to ask, right. Ask for what you want.
- MrShadow0
Any last thoughts? I am finalizing this thing one way or another tomorrow....