Discipler...
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- kelpie0
class is over.
discipler
(Aug 3 05, 07:45)christ I hate it when people put on eof those "PERIOD" style ending to their posts, sad.
Personaly I hope schools are teaching children how to look at what evidence is around us and make their own minds up as to where they might want to look for the answers which will fill in the gaps in our primative understanding of the universe. I don't see ascribing those gaps to an all powerful being we offer no proof of the existence of as something we should be actively teaching someone. RE already covers theories on different religions in our schools, why mix the two fields into a "scientific theory" just cos we don't know EVERYTHING yet? you have NEVER shown a shred of evidence which points to an allmighty, just pointed out things we don't understand yet. And you call everyone else backward.
You're entitled to your opinions and theories and faith and you may be right Discipler, but to teach these things as science is to blur the lines which jave been there since the enlightenment between what can be physicaly quantified and what can't. That doesn't make sense to me.
- normal0
Discipler: "normal, you are confusing instinct and sensory response with the ability to reason and make choices. A rat cannot ponder the choice to believe in God or not to."
Discipler: you are in turn confusing reason; ie the ability to weigh up consequences pain/pleasure principles as something inherently human which it is not. I never said that a rat would ponder God. I did say that the metaphysical is the only thing that seperates us but I do believe that is a product of evolution, that same cruel and wasteful system you mentioned before, that has given us this biological edge, 'survival of the fittest' and it will become even more finely honed as time goes on as it has so far.
Discipler: "Love for Christ is out of gratitude for what he has done."
Love for my mother is for gratitude for what she has done. If I did not love my mother then I would probably be unfit for furthering my species same as if she did not love me I would not have made it this far. But it all comes down to simple mechanisms of self-preservation and future procreation, something that again we share with animals.
Discipler: "You fail to demonstrate that we are not superior to animals and that we do not possess a metaphysical consciousness."
We are not more superior than a shark when in the water. We are not more superior than a bird when in the air. We are not more superior than the lion when on the plains. We are not more superior than a virus that kills us indiscriminately. We have managed to keep pace with and adapt to these environments and circumstances through natural selection, learned behaviors and technological advancements. The only thing we are superior in it seems is the ability to believe that we are superior and I believe that is our greatest folly.
- discipler0
kelpie, i have shown compelling evidence from science in support of a divine being. We don't have all the answers about the mysteries of the universe, but we do have some answers. And they point to a designer.
Intelligent Design IS science. It is simply observing the complexity of biological machines and the fine tuning of physics and drawing a reasonable hypothesis. Whether you like it or not. It should be taught alongside the belief of Darwinian Evolution in our schools. Say no to censorship.
- discipler0
normal, it's beating a dead horse at this point. Agree to disagree. I believe science demonstrates a metaphysical consciousness that was designed, not the product of the physical processes of an evolved brain. The brain is the apparatus much like a radio is the apparatus for the radio waves. I believe we were created with a dignity and purpose above that of the animal world. And I believe science supports this view. Environmental adaptations and learned behaviors do not demand that this metaphysical reality is anything other than a designed metaphysical reality specifically given to humans.
- bruised_blood0
I think you're being unreasonably harsh to parameciums.
I'm sure many parameciums have a lot of aims in life...
- Mimio0
Wrong again Discipler,
Science doesn't support metaphysics in ANY respect. It's reverse empricism, totally false.
- kelpie0
Intelligent Design IS science. It is simply observing the complexity of biological machines and the fine tuning of physics and drawing a reasonable hypothesis.
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No you don't, you say:"100 year old theories don't explain contradiction A, also Exhibit B is very complex and our understanding of it is limited, therefore we can assume the hand of an intelligent designer we have no physical proof exists."
That is not science, that is the same as not understanding why your crops were burned by lightning and assuming it to be the wrath of Zeus.
ID is a philisophy, one I think should be mentioned in science classes where a good teacher will point out gaps in knowledge and give a range of alternative ideas, but it shouldn't be taught in a science class. Surely when evolution is taught, the unknowns are explained? no? then your schools are shit.
- cosmo0
we r still on this topic eh.
- discipler0
Sure it does, mimio. If neuroscience demonstrates that there is a will/consciousness that supersedes brain stimulation, it is safe to assert that science indeed does support the metaphysical.
- xaoscontrol0
Actually, I have something to add:
My niece was sent to a private school..it turned out to be a christian school. Now, my sister doesn't go to church and therefore neither does my niece but my sister was getting pissed off because, at 15, my niece was being taught the creation theory and either wasn't being taught the evolution theory or was being told that the evolution theory was wrong. Either way, she started questioning why creation was being taught as the right thing. This caused problems at school ....of course my response to that is:
"what do you think they'd teach at a christian school?"
Now, is that right? Is it right for a private school, christian or not, or any school for that matter, to teach one theory as the only legit one and not allow students to think for themselves? Clearly there are parents out there that have a shit-fit when thier kid comes home with talks about creation and God made the universe but there are also plenty of christian parents that get cheesed off when the science teacher doesn't touch creation or passes it off as false. My kids go to a christian school, and they hear BOTH arguments when they get into High School because by then, they are able to critically think.
Personally, I'd rather the kids be able to hear both arguments and make up thier own minds.
- discipler0
kelpie,
That's not the process, though. You've been given the wrong data, evidently. Why not go directly to the horse's mouth:
http://www.ideacenter.org/conten…
and no... our schools have a tremendous bias, generally speaking, when they present the Darwinian belief. It is taught as fact and the errors often unmentioned.
- normal0
Discipler: "normal, it's beating a dead horse at this point. Agree to disagree."
Agreed. I have actual work to do anyways.
- Mimio0
Discipler,
Cognitive Neuroscience doesn't demonstrate that . You're talking about some Theological/humanistic theory as if it were fact. You're basically saying the science proves there is a 'soul'.Totally false.
- discipler0
mimio, i'm saying that there is solid evidence that we have an immaterial nature. Neuroscientists have stimulated portions of the brain to produce physical reflexes on one side of the body. Concurrently, the patient tried to hold down the reflex with their other arm. The patients respond, "you did that. I didn't do that." Who is "I" here? This is one example of how science has demonstrated that there is a consciosness that exists beyond the physical brain. There are also numerous examples of people who have been resucitated from death when there was no brain activity, who relate very lucid conscious experiences during the time they were dead.
- discipler0
now, i'm willing to let this thread die if everyone else is.
- pavlovs_dog0
why let it die, its evloving rather nicely, imho...
- bruised_blood0
Yes! DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!
- ********0
Discipler starring in:
Creationist Ninja †: Thread Part Duex
"In this exciting episode our Avenging Super Hero of Jesus Fearing Whoop Ass batters senseless with his ctrl+C and ctrl+V skills from subjective christian resources online, throws around terms like 'rational', mitochondria and 'metaphysics', and makes tiny origami dioramas of dinosaurs and early homo-sapiens sharing the great plains of the Garden of Eden.
When his Arch Villian Secular Enlightened Man says "Hey you're using Origami - form the Japanese! A culture that has no connection whatsoever to christiam belief systems!"
Discipler the Creation Ninja retorts: "Then they will no tbe saved. They have yet to find Christ and their tiny electronics are truly the path to the Dark side of Science."
Look out Evil Doers and non-Believers!!! The universe is unintelligable without the Likes of the Christian League of Justice and Biblical Learning to explain it all to you!!!
WHHHEEEEEE*
* sound of giant bright white light emanating from the sky, awashing our Hero with...er,um...light.
- discipler0
*crickets chirping
