Social Security
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- mrdobolina0
I dont think you need to be a bleeding heart liberal to give a shit about your fellow people. what happens in 40 years when millions of americans cant work anymore and havent put enough money into their retirement account to cover the rest of their lives?
- Mimio0
Disability is insurance for people who were once employed. People with non-job related injuries or handicaps aren't covered by Public Disability Benefits.
- Mimio0
The Spartans will turn them into Soylent Green in exchange for the price of their burial and death fees.
- johndiggity0
instead of throwing money at them, why not delve a little deeper into the issue and examine the problem.
what put that person in that situation? what decisions did they make, or not make? you act like throwing money at these people to subsidize poor decision making skills will stem the tide. maybe you shouldn't have had sex at 13 and go pregnant? not really a smart move in the long haul.
and you cannot tell me that everyone is at least not afforded a fair shake. go out for lunch and find a bum and ask him his story, it usually starts with dropping out of highschool/drug abuse. do you see a pattern? do you think keeping social security publicly funded will really help?
- GreedoLives0
I'm still hazy on how the whole thing is supposed to work. If your personal account runs out of money, what then? Are you screwed or does the government start chipping in?
I personally think that SS should stay like some giant insurance, with everybody carrying each other. But at the same time, SS is inherently unfair to certain demographic groups, like black people. Most of them have shorter live expectancies than the average white guy, meaning they pay way more than they get back. So in a sense the proposal that your descendants could inherit the balance of your account would benefit those groups immensely. But that at the same time, since the removal of the inheritance tax, is another giant handout to the rich as well.
Either way, Bush's insane financial policies are gonna bite this country in the ass very soon.
- mrdobolina0
that is an extreme example, John.
picture this: a mother is 54 and spent all of her retirement money to make ends meet because her job left the country. What happens to her when she can no longer work?
- johndiggity0
why can't she work? she's only 54. if ss stays the way it is, and the retirement age increases as it does, she won't have to worry about retiring until after she's dead.
and if her job is gone, she is probably an unskilled woker, there are plenty of other jobs. and they take ss out of her checks anyway.
privatization just means i can divest a portion of what they take in a more lucrative account. for my future, i'd rather bet on the success of american industry than american government, wouldn't you agree?
- mrdobolina0
so unskilled workers should die in the street?
Someone has to dig the ditches, John.
- GreedoLives0
i think if you're gonna hitch the national wagon to corporations, you'd have to force them to be better citizens.
no more headquarters in bermuda, no more enrons, worldcoms, or tycos; no more bhopals or chernobyls, no more ken lays or martha stewarts.
- Mimio0
Greedo,
Exactly why Social Security was created in the first place. Economic uncertainty.
- mrdobolina0
I don't want this to come out inflammatory John, because I respect you alot, but do you care about anyone besides yourself?
- CaP0
in part you are right john, but the system's not perfect. in chile (where i come from) there's a similar sistem (basically, after pinochet's liberal economic policies they privatized everything). in theory, it's a system where your money "adds up"... but in practice, you have to have a steady job, with enough money to chip in that account. in the end, what happens is that sometimes peolpe that for any reason whatsoever didn't put enough money in, they ended up being too old to work, but too young to just sit down and expect death...
i think a mix system would be the solution...although i myself have no specific proposal (otherwise i would be in politics, changing the world! ;))
- Mimio0
Here's a good litmus test.
John,
Do you feel that public education is a right of citizenship?
- bgheen0
Privatize EVERYTHING.
Maybe then we can have some decent roads.
Snowcrash had it all right.
- Mimio0
bgheen,
You know the reason we don't have decent roads in Michigan is that the companies don't pay into the system that they use. They never had this problem in the 50's & 60's when most of this stuff was built. Somehow magically they had the money then.
- mrdobolina0
I cant believe that people that support this never admit that it is going to be one hell of a payday for wall street.
- johndiggity0
dobs, i understand, and yes, i/we have to care about others because as i illustrated in my earlier point, their decisions have a direct effect on all of us.
my point is that it's not just throwing money at people that helps, it's allowing them to be better equipped to make sound decisions that is in everyone's best interest. which brings us to education.
i believe we all are entitled to education, but the public schools are not the answer. i favor vouchers for those who live in school districts that are quite frankly horrible. private institutions have a vested interest in seeing that their students are highly educated. their livliehoods are dependant on the success of their students. you cannot make the same argument given the state of public schooling as it stands now (i'm not talking about college or universities).
my point is if you would like to have the money that is going to be taken out of your pay anyway sit in a federal account earning 2%, that's fine and it's your choice to do so. what bush's plan is proposing is to allow me to take a potion of that, which i worked for anyway and invest it in a private account where historically returns are in the 10-15% range.
plus as a shareholder, i own a part of the company and i have a direct say in their policies. if enough people would realize that there is no financial industry conspiracy and realize the power that could be given to us, i doubt there would be many more scndals.
- GeorgiePorgie0
ah, yes. people in need require help. let's just throw a bunch of money at them. screw the fact that the money taken out of my pay now won't even be able to pay for my property taxes when i retire at 121.
johndiggity
(Mar 11 05, 08:36)I think you are referring to the welfare system as well no? you know those Americans that refuse to work, but plop babies out their asses to get more from the Gov.
- mrdobolina0
a lot of people are going to be left out of the Bush plan. That to me, is not progress. Not everyone in this country can afford to put money into retirement accounts. it is a fact. so they are screwed. That is not progress in a civilized nation.
- bgheen0
Ahh...I always blamed the roads on salt, granholm and hunters.