freelance situation
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- auricom
so, just trying to get a census of what most freelance designers would do if they were in my current situation; here it goes.
I have a really cool relationship with on of my clients, he is the only one that i dont require anything down in order to do the work, but it's becoming really hard to get paid. I rarely get paid in full, he rushs the hell out of me as well, next day type shit, but I don't see payment for quite sometime.
Do most of you, if in a similar situation, get paid 30 days after you do the work? I guess what I should do is become more strict with him and require something down before doing anything, just afraid to hinder anything because it is my only one that is a pretty constant flow of work....but I guess what's the sense if I don't get paid forever.
hitting financial bottom and looking for advice, much appreciation in advance.
- karlo0
I kind of know how you feel - however look at it like this...
If you toughen up and annoy him you may not get anymore work - ie no money
However, he doesnt pay you anyway, so how can that be a good client?? ie STILL no money!!
Basically, tell him that for both your sakes you need to introduce purchase orders staing clearly what you are doing for him.
30 days terms or upthe fees for 40, 50 and 60 - say 15%, 20% and 30%
It fucks me off when people dont pay
Come on mate - stand up for yourself and good luck!
What kind of work is it anyway??
- Duane0
Sounds fairly typical. It's amazing how clients expect you to drop everything to work on their projects and then take their sweet time to pay you. One suggestion may be to bill in thirds (1/3 to start the project, 1/3 when you deliver first round, 1/3 when you complete the job). At least you could cover out of pocket expenses while the gig is underway.
- MR_T0
Being tough and asking for fair payment doesn't necessarily mean you will lose the client.
And if so, maybe the relationship isn't as rosey as it seems.
Being tough on this issue might also have the benefit of getting him to ese up on things like the last day rush jobs,etc.
There is nothing wrongin being professional and epecting fair and timely payment..
- nosaj0
Tell him you're updating your standards for managing all of your client's, you're schedule and accoutning. Let them know that the new system will be better for you and for all of your clients. If you don't have a contract with him, get contracts signed... tell him you're getting everyone you work with to sign contracts to cover evrybody involved. I'm sure that he will be cool with it... If not well... Don't always fear burning bridges, some bridges are better burned. Not saying this is the case.
- derek30
the 1/3 rule is golden.
- auricom0
very very nice stuff.
all of my clients besides him sign contracts and usually do half up front, half when done. he's just a person i've known for awhile and things usually work out well, he's just been slackin, but when he slacks, bills don't get paid so hence the frustration. i guess i should just lay it out there and be like, due to not getting paid in a reasonalbe amount of time, i need to start asking for something up front.
is a 30 day billing period really that common? how long do most you have to wait to get paid? i'm just really against the whole, rush rush rush, then sit and wait to get compensated for it. i also work retail and it's not like, oh here's the product, you can pay us in 30 days. uuggghhh.
- smellvetica0
30 days is the norm for all soletraders/small buisiness.
in the uk you're well within your rights to take the swine to the small claims court if payment is delayed after a period deemed unacceptable.
- surfito0
if you have a client acostum to work in a certain way with you, i think it is very hard to change it, i usually stop working for them if i can afford it.
once theyre used to rushing you, and taking their time to pay and not pay up front, there not much you can do.
- vespa0
heh, when i was freelancing a certain uk tv company would take at least 3 months to pay, and it was never regular. it really screwed up my cash flow, and of course i'm terrible at managing my finances so i couldn't keep track of it all. i actually received one cheque a year and a half after i'd stopped working for them!
a small agency i worked for was in a similar situation to the one you've described - one main client who expected us to drop everything for them cos they knew they were our biggest client, but the urgent timing started to be at the expense of our other clients. We ended up negotiating a deal where they could have a set number of hours every month at a discounted rate that they had to pay monthly for, but they had to give a weeks' notice to use these hours, and anything over that or more urgent would get charged on top at a higher rate with the normal 30 day invoice. So then the onus was on them to sort out their management, and if they couldn't, at least we would get extra cash and at least they had had the option of the discount so they didn't think we were ripping them off.
- auricom0
that's kinda cool vespa. what i offered him before was to pay at least a 1/3rd down on all projects, then like you said, so he wouldn't seem pissed, give a discount on his promotional stuff.
basically, he does vehicle and building wraps, all large format work. here's a small example of one of the wraps i illustrated and designed.
http://www.4mula-h.net/HD/HD.htm…
we do alot of work for large radio stations so projects come in so quick at times that there's no time to get any of the money up front or do the whole contract thing. he also has to wait for them to pay him so that's why i have to wait to get paid sometimes, but not always the case. it's like it has to trickle down through other people before it gets to him then me. he's such a cool guy and a friend that's why i hate to be like, pay up not bitch before i do anything. very frustrating, just don't want to funk the relationship.
- vespa0
wikked work auricom!
i guess your main problem is cashflow tho right? in which case if he pays a discounted rate but makes it a regular payment every month then it works for both of you. you need to sell it as a win win situation blah blah. calculate how much work you do for him on average every month, and break it down into the stuff that could haev been planned better and the stuff that no-one has any control over deadline-wise and say "now if you covered even half of the non premium work with a monthly package of 20hrs per month at the discount rate, you'd save £x..."
Explain why you are doing it, eg, you need to plan your workload and finances better, say your small business financial advisor said this was a suggested practice, i dunno, but don't let him think you are trying rip him off.
- blaw0
nice stuff in that sample, auricom.
- Dancer0
As a rule working for friends and family is something I try to avoid.
Vespa has some sound advice though.
p.s Your working files must've been pretty hefty (?sp)
- auricom0
yeah, working for friends or family is always a tough one. he and i started doing this work about a year ago.
here's some other examples:
yeah, the files are huge, i'm on G5 w/2B of RAM, things move okay but still slow at times. some are all PSD's so they reach up to about 2 GB or so a file. sometimes i can get away with doing them as al vector so it isn't as bad. next quarter he wants to buy his own printer to do everything in house. it's just a inkjet but 6' long, one liter ink tanks, hehe.
most of the work is client driven, but i do my best to throw some of my own flava in the mix.
- jimeeboy510
30 days is a bit long for me to wait. I state a net15 day period for payments upon completion. I haven't figured out how to quote a cost to request the first 1/3 to be paid up front yet, because projects have fluxuated from 3-5 days per project. What do you guys do at this point? Other than that, I'm lucky enough to have on-time paying clients. I usually give them a high-low estimate of what the project may cost before I begin to see if they agree with that.