iRaq
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- winter0
making public ideologic statements on walls or poster work is a middle class weapon since the beg. of the XX century, connected to unions, the communist party, separatist groups, etc.
the thing with graffiti is that the same principle is apllied but there's no political or social context. there only propaganda of the "self". and there is some sort of hierarchy between the members of a crew.
- rabattski0
rasko4: imo that's the only common ground, using the street as a medium. i do differ though in fame without fame because graffiti artists always mark their piece while subvertising or street art is mostly anonymous (ofcourse there are exceptions). also i do think that subvertising / street art is a derivative from political and social economic postering and marking and not from graffiti. this is ofcourse not a rule but subvertising / street art tend to have a different message as graffiti. it's also generally a lot cheaper, done faster, less technical than graffiti. all imo ofcourse.
- BeachBoy0
Graffiti is a crime
Whats wrong with canvas, paper, web, posters ect etc. Someones property and blank walls is not your medium to display on. Buy a wall, buy a lane, buy an underpass, buy a train terminal etc etc but don't do it on my house
I never understand Graffiti in the form of "tag's" - artwork and murals I think are fantastic, but just signing your name and marking territory is unjustyfiable. Just take a piss on the wall so any like minded people will smell you and understand that that is your territory
- rabattski0
beachboy: tagging isn't graffiti. and i do agree with you that is a crime. which reminds me. worst thing i ever saw was some kid who tagged all the windows on parked cars in an entire street.
- winter0
i think it is wrong too, although the thing itself is very nice... it is sort of a mission with specific apparel and such. funny how it looks like 3rd party shooters.
we are living an individualist era, where you easily disrespect public space.
- rasko40
yeah I agree in part, although as politics / activism has become almost fashionable again (since a death after punk) and not necessarily sincere, so it seems has the prevelance of authorship to works that perhaps would have previously remained anonymous. Everyone wants a piece of the action.
Beachboy; buggery was a crime until recent years but I bet you would still practice it.
As far as the tagging thing goes I know what you mean, while there are some beautiful tags out there (and good stuff really is calligraphy) 99% of it is a mess which I dont enjoy. However, you dont really get one without the other, its almost a rite of passage for toys.
- winter0
yeah I agree in part, although as politics / activism has become almost fashionable again (since a death after punk) and not necessarily sincere, so it seems has the prevelance of authorship to works that perhaps would have previously remained anonymous. Everyone wants a piece of the action.
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rasko4
(jul 12 04, 03:03)this pretty much sums my op too. and graphic design is walking the same path.
- toe-knee0
tagging is ugly as sin and has ruined Sydney
god i sound like my grandad.
- Peter0
But...but I can still piss on your house, right?
;)
- Peter0
(That was for Beachboyses post)
- BeachBoy0
Rasko, I get your point, but buggery is dirty in anyones language ;)
You say its a right of passage, but is anyone, or has anyone thought of turning it into a legitamate passtime, i.e. creating a degree course in "graffiti art", say get the yoof of today in off the streets and channel their talent in to something critical and tangeable
- rasko40
the fact is, what people are talking about is toys, toy tags are ugly, toy throw-ups are ugly, toy pieces are ugly.
Its like listening to a 2nd year school band and saying "music is terrible"
- BeachBoy0
PeterH - more than welcome to. but you will smell me first and should respect my territory and wonder off to find a vacant corner. I top it up fortnightly, to keep it fresh
- toe-knee0
its hard to see the good stuff from all the shite rasko.
There are some great council commisioned peices on bondi prominade, really well thought out peices. but I guess theres not much buzz in being aloud to do it.
- BeachBoy0
can you quote yourself?
anyway...
"creating a degree course in "graffiti art", say get the yoof of today in off the streets and channel their talent in to something critical and tangeable
BeachBoy
(jul 12 04, 03:07)"-----------------------------
do you think there was an underground Economics movement until someone channelled this into the degree courses we know and love today?
- rasko40
I agree Tony, and to be honest I've seen enough graff to last me a lifetime, I'm pretty bored of it. Mainly because its been pretty much non progressive over the last decade or perhaps longer.. I see more interesting things happening in the post graffiti movement.
- rabattski0
rasko4: hmm... punk has become fashionable and you are right in a way that politics / activism has become more "fashionable" (which is not bad actually) although i would describe it as being more aware, sign of the time-ish. and yes because of that the message gets less transparent or the meaning of it gets lost in the process and there is ofcourse street art that holds no message at all and/or do it just for fame. which still doesn't mean (imo) that it has graffiti ethics. i see it as two different entities. everyone can do streetart while not many can do (good) graffiti.
well over here 99.999% of the tagging is utter and utter crap. it's not even toy anymore. howedver i've seen very very cool tags but never on personal property. but i don't know if the 99.999% crap justifies the .001% coolness. but i know where you're coming from though.
- lowimpakt0
although it may not look nice tagging is engagement with public space that steps above what most people feel they are capable of, which can lead to interesting things. Rather than channeling the youth to other creative ends (cos a babby can tag) I would like to see the identification and expression of 'place' being channelled into processes of community development etc.
- rabattski0
rasko4: post graffiti movement? can you describe post graffiti?
- zedvox0
that ain't gonna happen, lowimpakt.
politics is a wonderful thing eh?