kirk cameron
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- zoiks0
oops
the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom
- jakeyj0
how do you prove any historical event? by relying on eyewitnesses who were there. the bible is the most historically accurate document we have, speaking both in terms of external and internal validity, thanks to eyewitnesses who recorded the events. the bible speaks these truths that i've just posted, and therefore i believe they are true.
- Mimio0
Let me ask you this? Why would an all powerful and all knowing god require a book written by men to tell his creations about himself? In fact why would faith be necessary at all? Why not just hang with us in the here and now?
What kind of father tells his children they are "unclean" and hides from them?
- jakeyj0
aprilrains - a very fine point. one that i have struggled with myself indeed. on my quest, i've researched other religions, read their writings, spoken with followers, and so on. i don't want to believe something just because that's what those around me may believe.
like i said before, only in christianity does it teach exclusivity. as i encounter this, i have to say, either Christianity is right and it is the only way. or i must say that it is wrong, and then i would matter not what religion i believed in. personally, i could not encounter evidence that Jesus was not who he said he was. and he says he is the only way to heaven. every person who has heard of Jesus must respond to his exclusive claim. either you believe him or you don't
- Mimio0
Let me also add. That my 10 year old mind thought Kirk Cameron was a comedic genius.
- jakeyj0
mimio - i do not know the answer to that question. what i do know is that God has revealed himself and he is with us right now and he reveals himself in other ways than besides the bible. i don't claim to know why God does some of the things he does.
- jakeyj0
Let me also add. That my 10 year old mind thought Kirk Cameron was a comedic genius.
i couldn't agree more! :)
- Mimio0
Why not? don't you talk to him?
- jakeyj0
hmm i thought my honesty would be more appreciated.
- Mimio0
Just out of curiosity Jakey, would say that the Bible is more "historically accurate" than other religious texts like the Quran?
- i_monk0
Only we Amish are going to heaven!
- jakeyj0
yes i believe its more accurate
- Mimio0
Jakey, How is it more accurate?
- i_monk0
you believe it, first, so you have to believe in .
- jakeyj0
in terms of internal and external validity it far surpasses the criteria that historians use. besides its full of details that no one would include if they were making it up. also, the text is full of stories about women. in the Jewish culture at that time, women were scum, they couldn't even testify in court. but in the gospels, it says that mary was the first one to witness the empty tomb. how much more damaging to your story (at that time) could anything be? many other places the writers encourage the readers, if they don't believe them, to go ask the people who were there. many eyewitnesses were still around when the books were in circulation. a person could have easily gone and checked around. The life of Jesus is also chronicled in many other famous writers at the time, most notably josephus and plinny the younger
- Nac0
now i maybe late on this because I am not about to look through all the postings to see if someone noticed it too... but does anyone see who designed this? =)
- Nac0
apologies from deviating from the subject, didn't feel like getting involved in a religious debate at the moment.
- i_monk0
d'oh, shouldn't type in HTML bracketty things...
you believe it, first, so you have to believe in [whatever is needed to justify believing it rather than something else].
With each new encounter I grow more and more convinced that Christianity is a big ridiculous accident that people fall for as kids and later convince themselves of out of a need for continuity.
- i_monk0
jakeyj:
"Besides its full of details that no one would include if they were making it up." You've never read any (intentional) fiction at all, have you? _LotR_, and thousands of other books, are crammed full of details, including invented languages. I guess it's all real too!
"...but in the gospels, it says that mary was the first one to witness the empty tomb. how much more damaging to your story (at that time) could anything be?" Three contradictory accounts of who was there and when, that's pretty damaging for a so-called historically accurate document.
"The life of Jesus is also chronicled in many other famous writers at the time, most notably josephus and plinny the younger." Pliny the Younger was born 30 years after Jesus died, Josephus about 4 years -- hardly living eye witnesses, they could only chronicle what others claimed happened. And there's compelling evidence that Josephus' "golden paragraph" was added years (as many as 300, the reign of Constantine) later.
Sorry.
- willtoshower0
hot damn! I'm wondering whether Jesus sent him the cheque to pay for the site!