Waxing Philisophic...
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- rasko40
speak for yourself.
- quota0
Rasko,
Got a philisophical problem. What's your reason for creating?
- quota0
Fries with that? Extra milk in your decaf mocha frappuchino?
Or maybe you don't want to answer that question.
Thought you might have the answer with all that sarcasm.
- rasko40
well for me its kind of easy, I was into graffiti since an early age, its kind of second nature to put something on a wall, whether its any good or not is a different story I just enjoy putting it there, and I enjoy seeing it in public spaces and peoples reactions to it, either good or bad. So in that sense I'm stuck with this 'getting up' mentality which is really a kind of destructive force. Now since I'm not just a mindless vandal and I have ideas concerning public space and perhaps other issues I would want to create something with not so much a message but just something that raises an issue, a signifier, something that simply makes people think, now whether they think this way or that is their choice but so long as the act of consideration has been placed in their head then thats really job done.
But I dont think of myself as someone who is generously giving some amazing gift to the masses, I rather create for the people who are into it and fuck what the rest think, I get a personal satisfaction from it aswell which could be seen as selfish perhaps, but its nice if someone gets inspired.
As far as professional work goes its just a job to me at the moment, perhaps when I get a job at somewhere I like then it will be different (hopefully). And I would actually rather work for somewhere that had a social concious, but thats unlikely.
I wouldn't get caught up in trying to work against a capitalist society unless you are really prepared to give up everything and grow your own vegatables and shit, you cant really beat a system your so deeply a part of, and I dont know shit about growing vegatables.
- rabattski0
sheesh... chill out man. you're a bit too heavy hearted about this matter. design, it's just a job to pay the bills. and if you want to use it meaningfull than work for free for good causes etc.
- rabattski0
"...and I dont know shit about growing vegatables" what a closing statement. lmao!
- quota0
I just want to be non-political. ORIGINAL. Because when we get political, we aren't really doing jack shit. It doesn't have to have any meaning. It just has to be different.
- rabattski0
i so lost you there. non-political being original thus political is not original? non political doesn't excist, there is always something which influences you which you cannot control. unless you're dead. for the rest i have no clue whatsoever. look, if you're a designer than i would suggest you looking for a different job because it's not working out for you. design has nothing do with politics and always something to do with consumerism. if you're an artists than i would suggest you to use those frustrations or search for originality and/or being non political and create art.
- quota0
rabattski,
It turned out to be more of a heavy handed situation than I thought.Just looking for some warmth and companionship. Of course, in becoming more individual, you get less support...
- rabattski0
"Of course, in becoming more individual, you get less support... "
i don't know where you get that from but it's the other way around.
anyways, this happens if you drop a bomb like that in here.
- quota0
I'm a designer and an artist. So are you. I don't design with a political agenda in mind but everyone around me reminds me that I do. Including you. My question is: Should I design with a political agenda or not? Because if I do have a political agenda, I should quit designing and go dig irigation ditches in Africa so should you. I'm claiming I don't have a political agenda. I'm asking, "What makes you create given that you don't have a political agenda?"
- rasko40
the fact that you want to be 'original' is probably stifling your 'originality'; you say you dont want to be derivitive and yet you are looking at what has come before in order to avoid it, and I highly doubt that you have the genius necessary to think in an entirely original way and give up the wealth of accumulated knowledge. Perhaps I would suggest reading up on some existentialism and learn how to think and why perhaps we think before you rush off on a wild goose chase of being original.
By attempting to be so original you are somehow denying your role in humanity (like it or not) and are thus feeling the conflicts of internal struggle, what you need to do is find something and get on its path, then see where that path takes you rather than trying to find an invisible and perhaps non-existent path that runs somewhere between all the others.
- rasko40
commenting on something, considering something, discussing something doesn't necessarily mean that you have an agenda.
Denying it exists in order to chase something of which you dont even know is out there is folly.
- jpolk0
what the fuck are you on about?
- quota0
Wow,
Thanks for the constructive criticism. You're lovely folks.
Cheers!
- rabattski0
dito on rasko4. i would like to add that you can have a political agenda and be a designer at the same time. it's not one or the other. again, if you want to have a political agenda with your designs work for companies / good causes that fit within your agenda. work for free. whatever.
i don't have a political agenda, not with me being a designer. it's just a job that i like to do. a job that pays the bills and enables me to live my life. once in a while i do free work for good causes because i think i should give a little back to the community. that's all.
- bull0
After a decade of reading philosophy, agonizing over world events, raging at government, and whatever, here are the conclusions I've come to:
1 - Government will never represent you deliberately. The only way you'll be represented is if your beliefs happen to parallel the beliefs of whoever's paying for the election.
2 - You can never do anything of any consequence on a global scale. Ever. For example, go to Ethiopia and vaccinate orpahns for a year. Oops, you forgot about the 800, 000 africans who got killed that year in civil war. Oops, you forgot about the Middle East getting the shit kicked out of them by us for using the weapons we sold them (using the money we loaned them).
3 - Relax into your insignificance. It's here to stay.
4 - Forget art. It's about as useful as tits on a bull
5 - Art is for people who have enough money to be non political. Earn yourself a billion, THEN try and give a shit about local government. THEN buy some art. THEN be happy.
6 - If you want to be creative, that's fine, but it doesn't mean anything. Do you honestly think that, in the long run, good design has ever made the world a better place. I'm struggling to think of an example.
7 - Like the man said, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. I'm not sure I understand that, but I think it means that if you can take care of the people around you, that's about as much as you can do. If you can do that, and everyone else can do that, then everyone will be, if not empowered, at least happy.
- quota0
Amen,
And thank you Bull! I'm pinning it to my wall.
- Eli0
"Maybe I'm trying to create some kind of arguement that a creative life does humanity more good than a life dedicated to actually helping people."
"i don't think a creative life will do humanity more good than a life dedicated to helping out people. seriously. i think people rather be helped than be given a painting. unless you can eat the painting or use it to heat up the furnace."
There are essentially two types of people, those who create, and push things forward with new ideas, and those who sit on there asses and watch. Creative life doesn't just do humanity good, it might be the only way to do humanity any good. You could send a check to a poor starving kid in a poor starving country, or you could understand that said country is starving because the u.s. unloads government subsidised crops into their market at prices way below the market rate, the people of the country flock to these cheaper foods and their own agricultural system goes bankrupt, a few years later the u.s. demands that the country remove their terriffs thus reduceing the price of imported food even further, the country says no, the u.s. refuses to sell them food, and without any remaining agriculture of their own, they starve. A check wouldn't help these people at all, the only way to help is to try to fix the corrupt imperialist system responsible. How can you fix a broken world? You don't need to grow your own vegetables and live in a cardboard box. Activism is about being aware , of what you're buying, where you're money goes, and your own contribution to society.
"I am a tool of a society that uses me to further it's oppresion over others. The creative mind is an elitist mind creating reasons for the haves to look down their noses at the have nots."
A creative mind is an elitist mind, an arrogant mind, because it cares nothing about the halves, halve nots or anyone. A creative mind thinks for his or her self.
"And I watch this thread die as no one is able to give any good reason for 'design' or 'creating art' being meaningful in the world at all."
Art, science reason, thought, these are meaningful things. Societies, or groups of people in general, have a predilection to lapse into the stagnation of religion, politics and mysticisms of the moment. They worship that wich demeans the potential of man, that which screams 'we are the weak, the fruitless meaningless, nothings that exist solely for a (ficticious) god to watch and amuse himself with, we are the voice drowned in the mob.' The uncreative contribute nothing to society but dead weight in a world led by inertia. The creative, create. They develope new technologies, new ideas, new breakthroughs in understanding, they refine how we communicate digitally, they show us who we are and what we could be.
- Eli0
Do you honestly think that, in the long run, good design has ever made the world a better place. I'm struggling to think of an example.
creative people who have significantly improved our lives:
Aristotle
Galileo
the man or woman who invented the wheel
Newton
Einstein
Bell
this list is endless, think of any thing, and with enough research you'll find there was probably one or two people who were the impetus for the whole thing.